The Business of Music with Kym Swain

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Hey, y 'all, we're tuning in for another episode

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of Bankedoutt Radio Show. I'm your host, Andreas,

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and this is Music and Business Talk, and I have,

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via Zoom, we have Kim Swain, who is a recording

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artist out here, independent recording artist,

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I would like to add, and then also has been developing

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and building an international audience. So we'd

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like to get into that, but Kim. One thing I want

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the audience to know is like, you know, a brief

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background, like, you know, how you got started

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in the music industry, like why even do the music

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industry with all the different things that's

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going on? And then, you know, you took a break

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and then what was that resurgence of, you know,

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wanting to get back out there? Thank you. Thank

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you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here

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talking to you. I've been in the music industry

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my whole life at some capacity. I've always sang

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since I was a little girl. I used to sing in

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my great grandmother's hallway. She had like

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a nice acoustic hallway in the projects, you

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know, the cement walls. And, you know, whenever

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I came home from school, that was my thing to

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do because I was the only kid. So I would just

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watch Mike Douglas with her and whoever performed,

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I would go in the hallway and put on a show and

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she would give me free reign to do it. And also

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as a child, I have to thank my mom because she

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just instilled any creativity in us. You know,

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my mother and my father were both extremely creative

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people. My mother was a dancer, but she was also

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a logistics person. You know, she was an accountant.

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And my dad, he was an artist, but he loved music.

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He also, he was a curator. He worked for Sotheby's

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in New York. So I was surrounded by art and great

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things from a young age that my father taught

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me about. Like, you know, we were looking at

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historic art. We had historic art in our home,

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in the hood. Like I had Jones Crawford's coffee

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table in my living room. And that was one of

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the things. that we were very careful, you know,

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because with our living room, you know, and the

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black family, you don't go in the living room,

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you watch, you know, only when we have company.

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And that's how it was. So we were taught to respect

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certain things, but my parents had different

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religious backgrounds. You know, my mother had

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gotten, had become a Jehovah's Witness at that

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time. And my dad was like a Black Panther, Black

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power, free, forward -thinking Renaissance man

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in every way you can think of. And he was not,

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he was not down with that. Now his family, they

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would go get it. They were Harlem runners, boxers

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from Philly. My father was originally from Philadelphia,

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Sound of Philadelphia. So he grew up with all

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kinds of music and like some real high rollers

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who were independent players. My grandmother

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and her family, they owned stores in Bed -Stuy.

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They owned properties in Bed -Stuy. They had

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number houses and restaurants. And, you know,

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my father was surrounded by that. So whenever

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he would take me down to my grandmother's house

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in Bed -Stuy, I would sing. And his sister, my

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aunt, she was very, very involved in the church

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in Mount Sinai Baptist Church. And she was like

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that homegirl everybody loved. She wore the latest

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fashions, but she was that big sister in the

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church, in the choir. And one day she heard me

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singing, and she was the one who really got me

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in the professional field. She's the one that

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told me how to use my voice professionally. And

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one day I remember, she just heard me singing

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around the house. And I think I was combing her

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hair or something. And she said, my nickname

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is Nerdy. And she was like, Nerdy, you can sing.

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And I was like, oh yeah, I love to sing, you

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know, and she just came, no, you can sing. And

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from that point, it wasn't like about, you can

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sing, that's nice. It was about, you can sing,

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you gotta work. It's time to get you to work.

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We're gonna put that voice to work. And she took

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me down to the church, took me down to Mount

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Sinai Baptist Church, took me in front of Alfred

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and Albert Jamieson, who were the directors,

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and still to this day, Albert Jamieson is the

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head pastor of that church, and he worked very

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heavily with James Cleveland. At that time, Tribal

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Mass Choir was touring from Philadelphia all

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over the country, singing with some of the greatest

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gospel musicians in the world. As a matter of

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fact, Questlove was in one of the performances

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because his father, they had a church that I

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was able to after my aunt got me in the choir

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and they heard me. They said, oh, you are an

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alto soprano. They got me in there. I was singing.

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They would pitch me up. I was like, I don't want

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to go up that high. I was like, you got it. And

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I remember we got bused off to Philadelphia.

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And I had the opportunity, me and a bunch of

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other kids in the Junior Mass Choir to sing a

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backup for the Reverend James Cleveland. And

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I believe Questlove was there playing drums.

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He had his afro. And there was a lot of kids

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there in that group that it was just an honor.

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I mean, we were there all night singing from

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like 3 o 'clock in the afternoon to about 4 o

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'clock in the morning. And it was just a joy.

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It was so much fun. And I just remember learning

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how to sing different notes, singing different

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harmonies, how to ad -lib, how to use my voice

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in different ways. And from that point on, I

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think. Like later on, my sister had a best friend

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whose little sister was a year older than me.

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And she was in a gifted program at a school called

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Philippa Schuyler, Middle School for the Gifted

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and Talented in Brooklyn. It was one of the best

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schools you could get into for arts in Brooklyn

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at that time. And it was run by a black woman

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called Miss Boyce. And she, I got accepted. One

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day my sister came home and said, listen, my

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friend, her little sister sings and she's in

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all of these contests. She's singing all over

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the place. You could do it too. I was like, I'm

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not mad. I was used to coming home, going outside,

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watching videos, singing to the records and just

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doing my homework. I was always a writer. So

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I was always writing and reading in my room,

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but. And during that time, my parents had just

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separated. I had a real rough year. And when

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I was trying to evolve and around 11 years old,

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I went down there and I met. with my sister's

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friends and her mom. And I remember the day I

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walked in the door, the mom was at her piano.

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She was the director of a gospel church in our

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community. And my sister's best friend was there.

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And they all went to Eridam Murrow High School

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together. And the younger sister, her name is

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Rosalyn Brown. To this day, she's a great actress.

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She's a great performer. She performed all over

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the world. What happened here? I lost you. There

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you go. So when I got there, as soon as I walked

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in the door, they were so happy and kind and

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meet me. Oh, nerdy. We heard all about you. And

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the mother brought me over to the piano. And

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she said, I want to hear you sing. She said,

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tell me some of your favorite songs. I was like,

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well, I don't know that many church songs. I

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was like, but she said, you know, Ben? And I

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was like, oh, by Michael Jackson? She said, yes.

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She pulled up the music, started playing Ben.

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Mm -hmm. I learned it really quickly and I sang

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it and she said you got this She said you need

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to be in this how Jackson town to teen content

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It was the one thing if I showed up one thing

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led to another and I okay So I didn't think I

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was even I said I'll do it but I didn't think

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I was ready for even that and these all the things

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that led to where I am now because It made great

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relationships for me You know, I met some people

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that to this day, I'm very close with Hal Jackson's

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wife, Debbie Jackson, who was the music director,

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programmer, director for WBLS. She was his co

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-host for years, over 20 years on WBLS. And she's

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also one of the curators of Hal Jackson's talented

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teens. And that's how I met her. So Roz told

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me I need to audition. uh that was my first time

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riding on the train as a alone so my mother said

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well if she thinks you can do it you go ahead

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ros you know ross had like a grown spirit she

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was very advanced craze and very professional

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and she said okay we're going to this is what's

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going to happen she told me she said don't be

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scared you got this you could just sing just

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open your mouth and sing and i was like okay

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So I got there and waited on line, filled out

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all of these girls, all of these amazing girls

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from music and art, dance and ballerina. I'm

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like, I can't do this. These girls are super

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talented, man. And she said, stop thinking that

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way. So I went in the room and I remember it

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was my turn. And I went in the room and the piano

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player started playing this elaborate thing.

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And I was like, I started singing and I waited.

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And after that, they don't tell you anything.

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You know, you just go back in the auditorium

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and it's OK. We'll get everybody to hear from

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us. You know, and that was it. Forgot about it.

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Went to school. I ended up making it into Philippa

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Skyler. I got passed the test. My mother came

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home one day and she was smoking a cigarette,

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just came home from work and came into my bedroom

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just as casual as I said. You made it. You made

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it into the school. She flipped it out. She said,

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you? Congratulations. I was like, I made it.

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She said, big announcement at my elementary school

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about me. And it was like the first time anybody

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even knew I was doing anything. They were all,

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I was surprised when I got my graduation from

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elementary school that they announced that. So

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that same year, it was my first opportunity to

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be in Howe Jackson. I didn't place, but I did

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such a good job that Howe Jackson and then they

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talked about me the next day on the radio. And

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then they gave me the opportunity. I came back

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a second year, and I did a song by Gladys Knight.

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Well, it's originally by Barbara Streisand called

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The Way We Were. And I became friends with a

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lot of my friend, Roz's friend. By this time,

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she's in music and art. She had made it into

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LaGuardia High School. And her friends became

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my friends. And they coached me. They developed

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me. I would hang out with them. It was just like

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fame And I got on that stage and I killed it.

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I got a stand -in ovation, but I didn't win But

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that taught me that you don't always have to

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win. Yeah the win And um, yeah, it developed

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some great relationships. I moved on from that

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when I went to college I started taking some

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music programs and some business programs and

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my college professor. I was uh That uh, I had

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he um ended up putting me in a jazz ensemble

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He loved my voice. I had like a different voice.

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I had a deep voice I had a smoky voice and he

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put me in another young lady named Cynthia Williamson

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together and she's one of my best friends when

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my dear friends to this day we ended up performing

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at Lincoln Center. What is it? The Metropolitan

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Opera. And then he gave me an opportunity to

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sing for the Martha Graham School. And there

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was this young sister that was performing a solo.

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I don't know how big this is, or who Martha Graham

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is. But at that time, I knew who Martha Graham

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was, but I didn't know what to expect. So they

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sent me down to CBS Networks. to meet with this

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old Jewish man in his home, his apartment on

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Park Avenue somewhere. And I was like, what is

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this man going, why they sending me here? This

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man, what am I getting ready to do with him?

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And he was a program director and a specific

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sound director for Broadway and plays and for

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theater. I had to sing this song, the girl, it

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was specific. You know, one thing about me, I

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know how to take instruction. And I think that's

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why I was able to get these positions because

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when you tell me to do something, and that's

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with anything, I would do it. If I can't do it

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right, I'm going to fix it. You know, I'm going

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to get it right. So I got there and I recorded

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this song. It was called Lord, How Come Me Here?

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And she did an impression, a dance to it, but

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it was all acapella. It was no music. And, um,

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it was a very emotional song. It was like, Lord,

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how come me here? You know what I mean? You know,

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screaming and hollering and she, and I did it.

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She's got to stand ovation. And that was my first,

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um, opportunity to sing in front of a large crowd

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and to see, you know, the effects of my voice.

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Like they didn't see me, but they heard my voice

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and her performance and the effect of both of

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those things together. You know, it was a great,

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you know, get a little choked up, so I gotta

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tell you. But anyway, it was a great, you know,

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because when I go down these rabbit holes with

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you, that brings back memories. But yeah, that

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was when I realized this is something I really,

00:11:52.980 --> 00:11:56.519
really want to do. So fast forward, me and Cynthia

00:11:56.519 --> 00:11:59.710
developed our own band called Shiny Asha. And

00:11:59.710 --> 00:12:01.830
we were both great writers. We both, we were

00:12:01.830 --> 00:12:04.409
classically trained. We would go out and sing

00:12:04.409 --> 00:12:06.610
in Italian, like Coddle Meal Ben, at weddings.

00:12:06.610 --> 00:12:08.730
We'd make it some serious money. So then we said,

00:12:08.850 --> 00:12:11.490
hey, let's make a band. So we held auditions

00:12:11.490 --> 00:12:17.090
at the college. CUNY College. What did you call

00:12:17.090 --> 00:12:22.000
that again? BMCC. We met a lot of girls. We had

00:12:22.000 --> 00:12:23.519
three different girls, but Cynthia and I were

00:12:23.519 --> 00:12:25.500
consistent. We were writing the songs. We were

00:12:25.500 --> 00:12:27.179
arranging the songs. We ended up getting a recording

00:12:27.179 --> 00:12:30.559
contract offer. And we were performing all over

00:12:30.559 --> 00:12:33.580
the city. And the Nation of Islam was kind of

00:12:33.580 --> 00:12:35.519
like our managers for that time. They were really

00:12:35.519 --> 00:12:37.379
protecting us and getting us some great shows.

00:12:37.879 --> 00:12:40.779
We performed to all the hotspots. And we won

00:12:40.779 --> 00:12:43.220
so many contests. But then, you know, life changes.

00:12:44.059 --> 00:12:47.419
And I ended up getting a recording contract with

00:12:47.419 --> 00:12:50.509
the a brother named Jovan Armstrong, who he was

00:12:50.509 --> 00:12:53.409
working with Cynthia and I on some tracks. And

00:12:53.409 --> 00:12:56.710
he's a big house music producer. He did set it

00:12:56.710 --> 00:12:59.830
off with Strakes. And he's also very popular

00:12:59.830 --> 00:13:03.110
on his own. He's very big overseas. And he worked

00:13:03.110 --> 00:13:06.750
with Sweet Sable and Love So Special and all

00:13:06.750 --> 00:13:09.350
of those songs. So he and I had started writing

00:13:09.350 --> 00:13:11.110
some stuff when we did a song together that I

00:13:11.110 --> 00:13:14.149
wrote called Black Power on gold -tone records.

00:13:14.190 --> 00:13:17.220
That was my first... Signed deal on an independent

00:13:17.220 --> 00:13:19.740
label with Joe Vaughn and straight in that was

00:13:19.740 --> 00:13:24.360
that out of the I guess New York area. Yeah records,

00:13:24.360 --> 00:13:29.220
okay gold -tone records and That song came it

00:13:29.220 --> 00:13:32.159
was it was in you know rotation overseas and

00:13:32.159 --> 00:13:34.539
it still is You know, but I'm under a pseudonym

00:13:34.539 --> 00:13:36.519
on that record. Like I told you my nickname is

00:13:36.519 --> 00:13:39.080
nerdy So I wasn't sure if I liked my voice So

00:13:39.080 --> 00:13:41.799
I said listen, my name is on the credits as a

00:13:41.799 --> 00:13:50.620
writer, but I want my I'm trying this for you

00:13:50.620 --> 00:13:53.659
is that I'll be new name and I found out later

00:13:53.659 --> 00:13:55.620
in life. It was a hit I just learned that like

00:13:55.620 --> 00:13:58.340
maybe like five years ago I Google the song and

00:13:58.340 --> 00:14:01.659
I went on YouTube and I saw it was up there and

00:14:01.659 --> 00:14:03.539
I haven't made a dime for many of that music

00:14:03.539 --> 00:14:07.200
anything and When I saw it and I started reading

00:14:07.200 --> 00:14:09.059
the comments a lot of the comments were in different

00:14:09.059 --> 00:14:11.740
languages Italian French and they were all talking

00:14:11.740 --> 00:14:14.889
about oh bueno this voice and all these great

00:14:14.889 --> 00:14:19.149
things they love Giovanni look like wow wow yeah

00:14:19.149 --> 00:14:23.029
fast forward um my brother uh is in the in the

00:14:23.029 --> 00:14:26.750
service i ended up getting a recording contract

00:14:26.750 --> 00:14:31.549
after that with uh TVT records. Mm -hmm. Just

00:14:31.549 --> 00:14:33.830
later I met a friend another friend of mine that

00:14:33.830 --> 00:14:36.429
I met at the junior high school at the gifted

00:14:36.429 --> 00:14:38.690
and talented junior high school mind you milk

00:14:38.690 --> 00:14:41.909
is milk Kirk Robinson was my classmate, you know

00:14:41.909 --> 00:14:44.570
milk is chili kids. We were friends We've been

00:14:44.570 --> 00:14:46.850
all the SP class. We were some smart kids smart

00:14:46.850 --> 00:14:50.990
and gifts kids. Yeah He ended up getting a deal

00:14:50.990 --> 00:14:52.950
right when we graduated in high and he got his

00:14:52.950 --> 00:14:55.710
deal in high school But I wasn't there yet. So

00:14:55.710 --> 00:14:59.789
here in years later Get a deal with TVT Records

00:14:59.789 --> 00:15:03.509
and I'm up there You know Steve Gottlieb signed

00:15:03.509 --> 00:15:05.690
me I was originally I had presented myself as

00:15:05.690 --> 00:15:07.409
a group because I was too scared to do it on

00:15:07.409 --> 00:15:09.750
my own But I had written all of these songs at

00:15:09.750 --> 00:15:11.769
home. I produced them at home on my double dual

00:15:11.769 --> 00:15:14.590
cassette player Couldn't find the song the music

00:15:14.590 --> 00:15:17.269
that I wanted for the songs I was writing I was

00:15:17.269 --> 00:15:18.889
working with producers that I knew go to the

00:15:18.889 --> 00:15:22.289
house be in the shower singing, you know mp3

00:15:22.289 --> 00:15:24.629
players they play some drums and we would make

00:15:24.629 --> 00:15:28.629
some great music but um Got deals, but it was

00:15:28.629 --> 00:15:30.549
always a conflict with the label just trying

00:15:30.549 --> 00:15:33.350
to get my sound out They was always about right

00:15:33.350 --> 00:15:36.149
making me sexier or you know getting this other

00:15:36.149 --> 00:15:38.950
writer or something like that So give you an

00:15:38.950 --> 00:15:41.769
idea of what some of the experiences I had at

00:15:41.769 --> 00:15:45.149
TVT I was the only female only black female artist

00:15:45.149 --> 00:15:48.370
signed to TVT my label mates at the time were

00:15:48.370 --> 00:15:51.730
Gil Scott Heron Nine -inch nails Trent Reznor.

00:15:51.730 --> 00:15:55.350
So I was honored to be there, you know And so

00:15:55.350 --> 00:15:56.909
many people, since I was the only black girl

00:15:56.909 --> 00:15:58.470
walking around, they were trying to figure out

00:15:58.470 --> 00:16:00.990
who was I, what was I doing, what did my music

00:16:00.990 --> 00:16:04.210
sound like. So the benefit of being in a label

00:16:04.210 --> 00:16:07.590
like that is like you get leverage from music

00:16:07.590 --> 00:16:10.590
from all kinds of people that are like platinum

00:16:10.590 --> 00:16:13.250
producers. So I was looking through some of my

00:16:13.250 --> 00:16:15.549
catalogs recently because now I'm finishing up

00:16:15.549 --> 00:16:17.169
this album. I kind of wanted to revisit some

00:16:17.169 --> 00:16:19.549
of my music and get it. I remind myself who I

00:16:19.549 --> 00:16:22.440
am. You know because I took 20 years off to raise

00:16:22.440 --> 00:16:26.759
my daughter 26 years and um To come back into

00:16:26.759 --> 00:16:29.279
this now, uh, it's just like I had to like really

00:16:29.279 --> 00:16:32.440
get okay i'm gonna do it I can do it i'm gonna

00:16:32.440 --> 00:16:33.919
get back into it. I've been wanting to put my

00:16:33.919 --> 00:16:36.039
music out We're gonna do it and I came across

00:16:36.039 --> 00:16:39.230
some tracks that were sent to me At that time

00:16:39.230 --> 00:16:41.909
because they would send me envelopes yellow envelopes

00:16:41.909 --> 00:16:43.990
in the mail overnight them to me to my apartment

00:16:43.990 --> 00:16:46.169
in Brooklyn and I would open it up and be all

00:16:46.169 --> 00:16:47.789
these cassettes from different producers that

00:16:47.789 --> 00:16:50.590
heard my demo that I wrote and they wanted me

00:16:50.590 --> 00:16:53.250
to try their songs so two of the great producers

00:16:53.250 --> 00:16:55.990
that Reached out to me at TVT records that sent

00:16:55.990 --> 00:16:58.870
me some music. The first one was Vincent Herbert

00:17:01.820 --> 00:17:06.539
Yep, he was did a lot of stuff for Tony and team

00:17:06.539 --> 00:17:09.099
when I'm other mates. Oh, this is the thing He

00:17:09.099 --> 00:17:11.759
sent me a cassette tape with all these songs

00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:13.619
and they were good songs I remember listening

00:17:13.619 --> 00:17:16.680
to him and say, okay And I think I chose one

00:17:16.680 --> 00:17:19.059
song to write to though He had written he had

00:17:19.059 --> 00:17:20.500
the lyrics and everything, but he had sent me

00:17:20.500 --> 00:17:23.839
the instrumentals But he named them all on the

00:17:23.839 --> 00:17:25.559
cassette. I just put the cassette back. It's

00:17:25.559 --> 00:17:30.539
in the room and On the cassette is one song that

00:17:30.539 --> 00:17:33.680
I declined. And that song ended up being a big,

00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:37.640
big, big platinum hit years later. And it's Destiny's

00:17:37.640 --> 00:17:40.339
Child. No, no, no, no, no. I just didn't think

00:17:40.339 --> 00:17:42.779
it was for me. It just wasn't in my vibe. I like

00:17:42.779 --> 00:17:45.839
it. But I'm just so, I'm specific. I'm like,

00:17:45.880 --> 00:17:47.700
nah, I can't get on. I can't see myself. No,

00:17:47.700 --> 00:17:49.359
no, no, no. You know what I mean? It wasn't meant

00:17:49.359 --> 00:17:52.680
for them. And I know it was for me, you know?

00:17:53.200 --> 00:17:55.339
So, and on top of that, Steve wasn't really big

00:17:55.339 --> 00:17:57.519
about me using my budget. He was really, you

00:17:57.519 --> 00:18:00.690
know, I gotta thank him because He he helped

00:18:00.690 --> 00:18:03.130
me a lot. He pushed me out out there and gave

00:18:03.130 --> 00:18:05.369
me some opportunities that you know He made me

00:18:05.369 --> 00:18:08.210
a legitimate artist and he told me I am a producer

00:18:08.210 --> 00:18:09.769
He's the one that told me he said you don't need

00:18:09.769 --> 00:18:12.349
these guys that are charging all this extraordinary

00:18:12.349 --> 00:18:14.150
money for these these tracts He said they're

00:18:14.150 --> 00:18:15.950
taking advantage of you and a lot of a lot of

00:18:15.950 --> 00:18:17.410
producers did take advantage of me They used

00:18:17.410 --> 00:18:20.089
my studio time when I wasn't there some hit records

00:18:20.089 --> 00:18:22.670
are out right now that recorded on my studio

00:18:22.670 --> 00:18:25.990
budget Yeah, like I'm not gonna name no names.

00:18:25.990 --> 00:18:28.230
I'm not gonna bring up your bad stuff. I'm happy

00:18:28.230 --> 00:18:30.650
for them I'm happy for them. I blessed them.

00:18:30.670 --> 00:18:32.710
Okay, that was a blessing But now I feel like

00:18:32.710 --> 00:18:35.190
you know, it's my turn to get blessed back, you

00:18:35.190 --> 00:18:37.710
know, I never beefed about it Steve told me about

00:18:37.710 --> 00:18:40.109
what was going on but you think you know when

00:18:40.109 --> 00:18:41.930
you're young like that you think everybody else's

00:18:41.930 --> 00:18:43.390
has it under control all you got to do is worry

00:18:43.390 --> 00:18:45.690
about your music and you got to be when you're

00:18:45.690 --> 00:18:47.829
an artist in this industry you really got to

00:18:47.829 --> 00:18:52.180
be involved, you know, and I lost my my mojo

00:18:52.180 --> 00:18:54.640
when I started getting focused on my music because

00:18:54.640 --> 00:18:56.819
what Steve did he said um he didn't want me taking

00:18:56.819 --> 00:18:59.019
music from Kanye he didn't want me paying him

00:18:59.019 --> 00:19:01.660
no 30k he didn't want me paying Vincent no extra

00:19:01.660 --> 00:19:03.500
amount of money he told me he was gonna take

00:19:03.500 --> 00:19:05.640
that money he said I'm gonna put you in the studio

00:19:05.640 --> 00:19:07.559
we're gonna get you an engineer that knows how

00:19:07.559 --> 00:19:10.420
to play some instruments and you are gonna develop

00:19:10.420 --> 00:19:12.259
your own music he said you are a producer he

00:19:12.259 --> 00:19:13.940
said I believe in you he said you believe in

00:19:13.940 --> 00:19:16.299
yourself and I was like oh my god I was like

00:19:16.299 --> 00:19:18.440
you know this is what I've always wanted so okay

00:19:18.440 --> 00:19:22.089
and um I did it I was able to develop my song

00:19:22.089 --> 00:19:26.250
closer which came out last November 11 11 and

00:19:26.250 --> 00:19:30.849
I wrote that song over 30 years ago And I just

00:19:30.849 --> 00:19:33.069
didn't know technology has allowed me to be able

00:19:33.069 --> 00:19:34.829
to produce my own is the same way as to do in

00:19:34.829 --> 00:19:37.109
a double cassette player but now I can add the

00:19:37.109 --> 00:19:39.930
instruments I want to add and put my own my own

00:19:39.930 --> 00:19:43.029
vocals on it and mix it and master it, you know

00:19:43.029 --> 00:19:46.460
and I was able to do all of that. I was able

00:19:46.460 --> 00:19:49.039
to do a bunch of demos. I was able to keep my

00:19:49.039 --> 00:19:51.539
masters. Listen, at the end of the day, I don't

00:19:51.539 --> 00:19:53.799
need my masters because, you know, I'm redeveloping

00:19:53.799 --> 00:19:55.720
anyway. I'm keeping the consistency of who I

00:19:55.720 --> 00:19:58.700
am, but I'm using my own music. If I had done

00:19:58.700 --> 00:20:01.400
that then, my music, I wouldn't have seen one

00:20:01.400 --> 00:20:05.319
royalty. I saw my first royalty, a life ever.

00:20:05.420 --> 00:20:07.880
I think I got $11 in my whole life in music.

00:20:12.599 --> 00:20:16.759
22 dollars Yes, I Saw the best check I've ever

00:20:16.759 --> 00:20:19.359
seen in my life in a month after releasing my

00:20:19.359 --> 00:20:25.440
own music From all over the world calling me

00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:27.259
asking me to do drops I did it with the first

00:20:27.259 --> 00:20:30.559
week it dropped I did like six drops for like

00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:34.920
Italy And like six for UK and they were calling

00:20:34.920 --> 00:20:36.539
me saying where have I been? I'm like, how do

00:20:36.539 --> 00:20:39.519
you know me? And they were reaching out to me,

00:20:39.559 --> 00:20:41.599
said, do you sing Love Thoughts? Now Love Thoughts

00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:43.500
is a song that was on a compilation while I was

00:20:43.500 --> 00:20:46.700
at TVT, one of my first demos that I wrote. And

00:20:46.700 --> 00:20:48.960
it was produced by Will Fulton, who was one of

00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:51.099
my A &Rs and also a producer. And he's the reason

00:20:51.099 --> 00:20:53.759
why I ended up at TVT because he was going to

00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:55.400
Sarah Lawrence College. My friend introduced

00:20:55.400 --> 00:20:58.480
me to him. We can hit it off. He liked my sound.

00:20:58.720 --> 00:21:01.359
I was doing reggae. You know, I'm like all over

00:21:01.359 --> 00:21:03.799
the place. You know, I do reggae. And my family

00:21:03.799 --> 00:21:06.539
is like, we're mutts. We just, it's like most

00:21:06.539 --> 00:21:10.059
Caribbean, but my family loves to dance. We love

00:21:10.059 --> 00:21:13.319
music. you know and it's just music is the life

00:21:13.319 --> 00:21:17.079
of my family and uh my uncles used to be in the

00:21:17.079 --> 00:21:19.420
playing the bongos when i was a kid in the middle

00:21:19.420 --> 00:21:21.039
of the living room at my aunt's house you know

00:21:21.039 --> 00:21:24.880
we just were vibrant people so i'm just um i

00:21:24.880 --> 00:21:27.000
just love music and i just take any opportunity

00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:29.380
that will come to me so later on while i'm at

00:21:29.380 --> 00:21:32.299
sign at tv t my cousin he had started kind of

00:21:32.299 --> 00:21:34.400
helping me out watching my back because the industry

00:21:34.400 --> 00:21:35.779
was crazy. I don't even want to get into all

00:21:35.779 --> 00:21:37.740
the crazy stories because I can take you down

00:21:37.740 --> 00:21:39.119
a hole we don't want to go. We'll keep the love

00:21:39.119 --> 00:21:41.680
in my soul. I get that. I do want to ask this

00:21:41.680 --> 00:21:45.319
though. How long were you on TBT as far as we

00:21:45.319 --> 00:21:47.119
know? Oh, I was on TBT for about four and a half

00:21:47.119 --> 00:21:50.299
years. And how were you able to get off of it?

00:21:51.059 --> 00:21:53.099
Huh? How were you able to get off the label?

00:21:53.400 --> 00:21:55.720
Well, one day, see what happened was when Steve

00:21:55.720 --> 00:21:58.460
heard my music, the demo that I had done on my

00:21:58.460 --> 00:22:01.400
own, he loved it. And I had had my friend, the

00:22:01.400 --> 00:22:03.220
friend that introduced me to this guy. She wasn't

00:22:03.220 --> 00:22:05.619
a singer. She wasn't a dancer. None of that.

00:22:05.920 --> 00:22:07.859
But she was my friend and she was my ride or

00:22:07.859 --> 00:22:10.759
die. So I said, listen, I need a backup singer.

00:22:10.759 --> 00:22:12.339
I said, I'd rather be a group. I said, they got

00:22:12.339 --> 00:22:15.339
TLC, they got H -Town, all of these groups. I

00:22:15.339 --> 00:22:17.339
said. We could be a group. We could be a girl

00:22:17.339 --> 00:22:19.160
group. I said, I'll carry it. I said, you ain't

00:22:19.160 --> 00:22:20.940
got to worry about nothing. I will carry it.

00:22:21.160 --> 00:22:24.640
And she's like, OK. She dropped out of Wilberforce

00:22:24.640 --> 00:22:27.859
University and went on the road with me. I love

00:22:27.859 --> 00:22:30.299
it. And one day we went to Florida. I remember

00:22:30.299 --> 00:22:31.559
one day we were sitting in my living room and

00:22:31.559 --> 00:22:33.500
I had just wrote this song called Me and You.

00:22:33.799 --> 00:22:36.220
And I had wrote it for her because she had such

00:22:36.220 --> 00:22:39.000
a crush on Dino from H -Town. We were watching

00:22:39.000 --> 00:22:42.359
BET music videos at my apartment. And I was like,

00:22:42.380 --> 00:22:44.000
oh, Knocking the Boots came on. I was like, that

00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:46.259
is bad. I was like, oh, I'll be looking at them.

00:22:46.440 --> 00:22:47.660
They look good. That's some good looking bros.

00:22:47.980 --> 00:22:51.460
They on Luke Records? And at that time, Luke

00:22:51.460 --> 00:22:53.599
Records was known for other stuff. And I was

00:22:53.599 --> 00:22:55.259
like, well, that's pretty cool. He has an R &B

00:22:55.259 --> 00:22:57.640
group. I said, you know what? And she was just

00:22:57.640 --> 00:22:59.160
so into Dino. I said, you know, I'm going to

00:22:59.160 --> 00:23:02.660
call them. I said, I'm going to call the record

00:23:02.660 --> 00:23:03.619
label. She said, what you going to do? How you

00:23:03.619 --> 00:23:05.079
going to call it? Because I had an attorney.

00:23:05.240 --> 00:23:06.640
I already had an attorney, her name was Jill

00:23:06.640 --> 00:23:08.839
Perlman. She was an amazing attorney. I was already

00:23:08.839 --> 00:23:10.859
in talks with TVT at this time and they were

00:23:10.859 --> 00:23:12.819
ready to sign me. I had spoken to Russell Simmons

00:23:12.819 --> 00:23:14.740
because my sister was friends with him. She gave

00:23:14.740 --> 00:23:15.839
me an opportunity to call him. You know what

00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:18.500
he said to me? He said, what makes you think

00:23:18.500 --> 00:23:20.700
I should sign you? And he was nice about it.

00:23:20.819 --> 00:23:23.099
I got to give it to him. He was like, he was

00:23:23.099 --> 00:23:25.140
nice enough to get on the phone with me. And

00:23:25.140 --> 00:23:27.900
he said, listen, I know you can, he said, you

00:23:27.900 --> 00:23:30.539
may be talented. You may be all of that. He said,

00:23:30.660 --> 00:23:33.480
but what merits you? to just think that I should

00:23:33.480 --> 00:23:35.420
sign you right away. You got to put in some work.

00:23:35.700 --> 00:23:37.279
I was like, you know what, that's okay. I'll

00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:39.240
prove it to you. And, you know, I don't remember

00:23:39.240 --> 00:23:41.519
much about that conversation. The fact that my

00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:43.579
sister was able to make it happen, you know,

00:23:43.819 --> 00:23:45.380
because she's, my sister's been in the industry.

00:23:45.460 --> 00:23:47.160
She works in the fashion industry. She used to

00:23:47.160 --> 00:23:49.319
represent Naomi Campbell. She used to have her

00:23:49.319 --> 00:23:54.490
own agency under John Casablanca called. It was

00:23:54.490 --> 00:23:56.910
like a division of elite models and then she

00:23:56.910 --> 00:23:59.150
went on to work with Wilhelmina models as a director.

00:23:59.609 --> 00:24:02.130
But she just knew certain people and you know,

00:24:02.329 --> 00:24:04.549
my sister's like, she always wanted me to do

00:24:04.549 --> 00:24:06.190
the hard work myself. She never wanted to give

00:24:06.190 --> 00:24:08.640
me nothing. That's you that work, you know, it's

00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:10.180
I'll introduce you but I tell me you won't give

00:24:10.180 --> 00:24:16.359
you nothing She comes back she said see I told

00:24:16.359 --> 00:24:18.880
you you could do it just for yourself you could

00:24:18.880 --> 00:24:22.200
do it So, um, anyway after that I went I told

00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:24.960
my friend I'm gonna call Luke and I looked up

00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:27.200
the floor I looked it up. I found the number

00:24:27.200 --> 00:24:30.720
to Luke records and I called them up And I said

00:24:30.720 --> 00:24:33.099
hi said my name is uh, I forgot I think I told

00:24:33.099 --> 00:24:35.460
him my name was jill pilgrim my mother my attorney's

00:24:35.460 --> 00:24:39.200
name And I said and my client is uh in the middle

00:24:39.200 --> 00:24:41.359
of some negotiations. She has some great music

00:24:41.359 --> 00:24:44.640
that's coming out She's getting some uh leverage

00:24:44.640 --> 00:24:46.700
in the industry here in new york. She's going

00:24:46.700 --> 00:24:50.000
to be in miami this weekend And uh, we wanted

00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:51.960
to see she's interested in meeting with you and

00:24:51.960 --> 00:24:53.160
letting you hear some of her music She hasn't

00:24:53.160 --> 00:24:55.700
made a decision on what label she's going to

00:24:55.700 --> 00:24:59.079
be on her and her she has a she's a group and

00:24:59.160 --> 00:25:01.079
I remember speaking to the receptionist and she

00:25:01.079 --> 00:25:03.440
said, oh, let me get somebody for you. And she

00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:07.539
got the head A &R and his name was Manny. And

00:25:07.539 --> 00:25:09.519
Manny got on the phone. He's very kind. He said,

00:25:09.539 --> 00:25:12.140
hello. And he listens to me. He said, sure, yeah.

00:25:12.380 --> 00:25:14.099
He's like, what's her name? I said, her name

00:25:14.099 --> 00:25:16.000
is Kim Swain, but the name of the group is none

00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:18.079
other. And he was like, OK, when will she be

00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:20.500
in town? And I told him, he said, OK, when she

00:25:20.500 --> 00:25:23.279
staying? And I said, she's going to be staying

00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:25.599
near the airport. We found a hotel, the budget

00:25:25.599 --> 00:25:26.980
tell. We said it's going to be near the budget

00:25:26.980 --> 00:25:29.450
tell. and he said all right well just let me

00:25:29.450 --> 00:25:31.009
know when you get in town we'll set up a meeting

00:25:31.009 --> 00:25:33.430
and you know we'll go from there so we got off

00:25:33.430 --> 00:25:36.170
the airplane i called him i said listen um i'm

00:25:36.170 --> 00:25:39.130
in town um my name is kim he said yeah kim listen

00:25:39.130 --> 00:25:41.349
oh what's your schedule where you staying i said

00:25:41.349 --> 00:25:43.430
i'm staying at the budget tell he said well listen

00:25:43.430 --> 00:25:45.170
go get yourself settled and let's set up a meeting

00:25:45.170 --> 00:25:48.230
for first thing tomorrow morning get up there

00:25:48.230 --> 00:25:50.549
man me and my friend we put on all we do we fly

00:25:51.540 --> 00:25:55.759
Like we was like Foxy brown flower bell bottom

00:25:55.759 --> 00:26:04.700
I had legs and she had a Nice figure so she was

00:26:04.700 --> 00:26:07.000
the long pants and I was short version with the

00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:10.069
denim jacket or ripped up. It was like 19 I'd

00:26:10.069 --> 00:26:14.369
say 93, 94, maybe not even that, like 91, 92.

00:26:15.029 --> 00:26:17.190
And we'd get up there and everybody's looking

00:26:17.190 --> 00:26:19.930
at us coming through. We were scared. They thought

00:26:19.930 --> 00:26:23.109
we were thugs. They thought we were tough. Because

00:26:23.109 --> 00:26:25.289
even though we were smiling and cute or whatever,

00:26:25.369 --> 00:26:27.849
it was like, these girls are crazy. So we'd get

00:26:27.849 --> 00:26:30.130
up in there and Banny comes out and gets me to

00:26:30.130 --> 00:26:31.789
get in his office and he tells me how much he

00:26:31.789 --> 00:26:34.269
loves mommy. And my demo was by no means of great

00:26:34.269 --> 00:26:36.700
quality. Okay, it was the roughest you could

00:26:36.700 --> 00:26:39.119
have a dead on beat but they met with me on on

00:26:39.119 --> 00:26:42.759
a strength of I could write and Harmony and the

00:26:42.759 --> 00:26:45.460
effort that I put in to double -decking double

00:26:45.460 --> 00:26:47.819
-decking that recording to speed it up and mix

00:26:47.819 --> 00:27:02.140
it the way I did He went down the hall and he

00:27:02.140 --> 00:27:04.119
came back and he was gone for a while and while

00:27:04.119 --> 00:27:05.680
he was down the hall and I told you my friend

00:27:05.680 --> 00:27:12.299
had a crush on Dino. So he says have a seat.

00:27:12.299 --> 00:27:13.819
He told her she could sit behind his desk. He

00:27:13.819 --> 00:27:16.740
had all these papers and stuff, itineraries on

00:27:16.740 --> 00:27:19.700
his desk. My friend, she was spinning around

00:27:19.700 --> 00:27:21.440
in his chair and she was like this to the sheets

00:27:21.440 --> 00:27:23.440
on the thing. She saw H -Town's picture so she

00:27:23.440 --> 00:27:25.539
act like she made a mistake and moved the papers

00:27:25.539 --> 00:27:28.710
and it was their whole itinerary. Andrea they

00:27:28.710 --> 00:27:42.470
were coming to town that night. Yeah I'm not

00:27:42.470 --> 00:27:45.130
sneaky like that. So she said she took the information

00:27:45.130 --> 00:27:47.910
we got on Manny came back in the office He said

00:27:47.910 --> 00:27:49.730
y 'all all right, we said we could he said well

00:27:49.730 --> 00:27:52.809
listen Here's what's up. He said, Mr. Campbell

00:27:52.809 --> 00:27:54.309
likes you. He likes you a lot. He likes your

00:27:54.309 --> 00:27:56.230
sound. He said, but he can't work with you with

00:27:56.230 --> 00:27:58.609
that quality. He said he wants you to go back

00:27:58.609 --> 00:28:01.289
in the studio into a real studio and re -record

00:28:01.289 --> 00:28:04.130
it and then come back. And he wants to see what

00:28:04.130 --> 00:28:06.109
he can do with you at that point. I said, OK,

00:28:06.329 --> 00:28:08.869
you got to tell me twice. I said, I'll do it

00:28:08.869 --> 00:28:10.450
while I'm here. I said, I'll find a studio while

00:28:10.450 --> 00:28:12.990
I'm here. And he said, you something else. He

00:28:12.990 --> 00:28:14.309
said, you can do that. He said, you want me to

00:28:14.309 --> 00:28:16.069
go back to New York? I said, no, while I'm here,

00:28:16.210 --> 00:28:18.200
I'll get it done. I'll get two in a week. And

00:28:18.200 --> 00:28:21.220
he said, okay, he didn't believe me. So my friend,

00:28:21.220 --> 00:28:23.140
she didn't have to do nothing but be mischievous.

00:28:23.420 --> 00:28:26.180
We get back to the hotel and she looks up the

00:28:26.180 --> 00:28:29.779
Romada hotel, the Romada. She calls them and

00:28:29.779 --> 00:28:31.579
we looked on the back of the album cover to find

00:28:31.579 --> 00:28:35.940
out their real names. And she calls the hotel

00:28:35.940 --> 00:28:39.279
and goes, yeah, can I speak to Dino Kata? And

00:28:39.279 --> 00:28:41.859
they put him through, they put him through. She

00:28:41.859 --> 00:28:44.400
gets home and acts like she knows this man. And

00:28:44.400 --> 00:28:46.420
he go, who this girl? Girl, I don't know you.

00:28:46.460 --> 00:28:50.140
And hung up on her. Mm -hmm. So I was like, oh

00:28:50.140 --> 00:28:51.720
my god She's saying the phone was like three

00:28:51.720 --> 00:28:54.059
minutes and then he hung up on it because they

00:28:54.059 --> 00:28:57.099
were getting a lot of groupies So I said we just

00:28:57.099 --> 00:28:59.259
laughed that night and just laughed and we then

00:28:59.259 --> 00:29:01.140
I found a studio I made some calls in New York

00:29:01.140 --> 00:29:03.619
and one of my godbrothers He had a friend who

00:29:03.619 --> 00:29:06.400
had a son out in Hollywood in Florida who had

00:29:06.400 --> 00:29:09.000
a little studio in the garage And I said I'll

00:29:09.000 --> 00:29:10.440
pay him I'll pay him a hundred dollars if he

00:29:10.440 --> 00:29:12.819
can help me just do these three songs And they

00:29:12.819 --> 00:29:14.980
all I need to do is loop it And um, you know

00:29:14.980 --> 00:29:17.400
have a mic and be able to do some effects. He

00:29:17.400 --> 00:29:19.079
said all right So I went out there paid my hundred

00:29:19.079 --> 00:29:21.400
dollars. I got it done three days later. I called

00:29:21.400 --> 00:29:24.000
Manny I said, hey Manny, he picks up the phone

00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:26.119
right away. He goes. Hey kill me. How you doing?

00:29:26.500 --> 00:29:28.539
He was so happy to you know, he was so happy

00:29:28.539 --> 00:29:29.960
to hear from me. I said, I'm great I was like

00:29:29.960 --> 00:29:32.259
listen, I got that done. I just want to know

00:29:32.259 --> 00:29:33.759
when I can drop it off I got to leave back to

00:29:33.759 --> 00:29:35.700
New York because I extended my stay a little

00:29:35.700 --> 00:29:44.839
bit my American Express was I heard you caught

00:29:44.839 --> 00:29:47.740
the hotel the other night. I said no, that wasn't

00:29:47.740 --> 00:29:52.579
me. That was my friend That was her and he said,

00:29:52.579 --> 00:29:54.579
oh, wait a minute. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on

00:29:54.579 --> 00:29:57.220
next I know hit a phone rumbling and somebody

00:29:57.220 --> 00:30:00.000
gets on the phone. They go hello and I say, yeah

00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:02.180
Hello, he said who's this? I said, this is Kim.

00:30:02.339 --> 00:30:08.390
He's all hey Kim. This is the Shazam And he goes,

00:30:08.450 --> 00:30:10.490
I'm doing good. We had a normal conversation.

00:30:11.130 --> 00:30:13.369
And he was going, we talked about 20 minutes.

00:30:13.509 --> 00:30:16.789
My friend was in the other room of the hotel.

00:30:17.170 --> 00:30:20.029
And when she heard me talking to Shazam, she

00:30:20.029 --> 00:30:22.910
came in the room like, just like, what? How did

00:30:22.910 --> 00:30:27.029
that happen? I'm like, yo. So I'm just talking

00:30:27.029 --> 00:30:28.430
to him and talking to him. I said, so listen,

00:30:28.490 --> 00:30:30.009
we need to get together. I said, can you meet

00:30:30.009 --> 00:30:31.990
up? Want to go to Grand Prix? Go a little race

00:30:31.990 --> 00:30:33.809
car driving or something? Anything not in the

00:30:33.809 --> 00:30:36.339
hotel room. He's like now my manager's not gonna

00:30:36.339 --> 00:30:39.440
let me do that. You know, I was up with you He

00:30:39.440 --> 00:30:40.960
said that he's won't you come to the hotel. I

00:30:40.960 --> 00:30:44.079
said, I'm not coming to the hotel I said I'll

00:30:44.079 --> 00:30:46.539
come get you I got a rental car as if you want

00:30:46.539 --> 00:30:47.759
to come out in the rental He said well, they

00:30:47.759 --> 00:30:49.759
got like a game room and you can come out we

00:30:49.759 --> 00:30:52.119
can go in the game room I said, all right, no,

00:30:52.119 --> 00:30:56.680
no fishy business. No, no, no We get to the hotel,

00:30:56.700 --> 00:31:00.000
I go get him. He comes out, we both, all three

00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:02.259
of us, go sit in my rental car. I play all my

00:31:02.259 --> 00:31:05.019
music. Had a great conversation. He was getting

00:31:05.019 --> 00:31:08.079
ready to go on tour with TLC and SWV. Now me

00:31:08.079 --> 00:31:10.779
and Coco were in Hal Jackson together. Coco was

00:31:10.779 --> 00:31:12.740
the one that reminded me. Just out of the blue,

00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:14.940
I'm in the audience doing camera work, and Coco

00:31:14.940 --> 00:31:18.559
goes, Kimberly, Kim! And I'm like, I forgot.

00:31:18.619 --> 00:31:21.279
We were like friends. We used to eat lunch. This

00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:25.109
is never who people grew up to be. She actually

00:31:25.109 --> 00:31:28.029
because of cocoa. I was doing some work at the

00:31:28.029 --> 00:31:30.349
essence festival one year I didn't have any money

00:31:30.349 --> 00:31:32.750
these people wanted to come in and film for them

00:31:32.750 --> 00:31:35.410
for a magazine I asked my daughter's dad to lend

00:31:35.410 --> 00:31:39.849
me a little cash and when I got there Coco remembers

00:31:39.849 --> 00:31:43.549
me and out of a room of about 150 people Publications

00:31:43.549 --> 00:31:46.089
she points me out and then after that she takes

00:31:46.089 --> 00:31:47.849
me to the back and gets me my own booth with

00:31:47.849 --> 00:31:49.829
essence And then I was able to have free rate

00:31:49.829 --> 00:31:52.130
with whoever I wanted. So again, it's all about

00:31:52.130 --> 00:31:56.390
showing up. I think and I've been one of those

00:31:56.390 --> 00:31:59.670
people that always had a little bit of anxiety

00:31:59.670 --> 00:32:03.289
when it came to using my voice. I've always been

00:32:03.289 --> 00:32:06.170
creative, but I just never knew. I just never

00:32:06.170 --> 00:32:12.269
wanted the stardom. I don't want people wanting

00:32:12.269 --> 00:32:15.809
to know me because of who I know or what money

00:32:15.809 --> 00:32:19.509
I have or because I'm around these people that

00:32:19.509 --> 00:32:22.539
people deem uh special or stars and everything

00:32:22.539 --> 00:32:25.059
because that happens even as a you should know

00:32:25.059 --> 00:32:27.519
like even as a host of a radio show or just being

00:32:27.519 --> 00:32:29.960
a person people want to gravitate to you because

00:32:29.960 --> 00:32:33.619
of your access and um yeah that is true yeah

00:32:33.619 --> 00:32:35.799
they want your access you know try to be your

00:32:35.799 --> 00:32:37.799
friend and they oh how can i help you that ends

00:32:37.799 --> 00:32:41.259
up you helping them yeah exactly yeah they try

00:32:41.259 --> 00:32:43.119
to play that role like they really try to help

00:32:43.119 --> 00:32:45.799
you but they're not helping you because i'm like

00:32:45.799 --> 00:32:48.960
first of all this is uh I didn't really have

00:32:48.960 --> 00:32:51.339
to ask a lot of questions. You just ravaged the

00:32:51.339 --> 00:32:54.619
story. So I loved it. A whole lot of different

00:32:54.619 --> 00:32:57.079
things in there. One I did want to talk about

00:32:57.079 --> 00:32:59.220
is like, OK, so what's your lawyer? Were you

00:32:59.220 --> 00:33:00.839
ever mad at your lawyer or whatever? Because

00:33:00.839 --> 00:33:03.480
I'm like, you're only receiving so much money

00:33:03.480 --> 00:33:04.920
for royalties or whatever, and they're supposed

00:33:04.920 --> 00:33:07.500
to be looking out for you. OK. Again, how blessed

00:33:07.500 --> 00:33:10.920
I am. How blessed I've been. My lawyer, I used

00:33:10.920 --> 00:33:13.400
to work for her. And my mother, I told her she

00:33:13.400 --> 00:33:15.400
was an accountant, and she was an accountant

00:33:15.400 --> 00:33:20.059
for a law firm on Park Avenue in Manhattan. And

00:33:20.059 --> 00:33:22.880
just as a precaution, me and my sister, because

00:33:22.880 --> 00:33:25.599
we became latchkey, my sister's like, there's

00:33:25.599 --> 00:33:29.259
four years between us. And I was the youngest.

00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:31.559
My brother was off in Europe. My older sister

00:33:31.559 --> 00:33:34.089
was married. And it was just me, my mother, and

00:33:34.089 --> 00:33:35.750
my sister living home at that time. And my mother

00:33:35.750 --> 00:33:38.269
worked. So the way she kept an eye on us is my

00:33:38.269 --> 00:33:40.309
sister started working at that job. We would

00:33:40.309 --> 00:33:43.549
go there after school and work for about four

00:33:43.549 --> 00:33:45.230
or five hours and come home with my mom. We would

00:33:45.230 --> 00:33:48.529
do reception, paralegal work, anything the lawyers

00:33:48.529 --> 00:33:51.349
needed us to do. We'd get dressed up. And again,

00:33:51.349 --> 00:33:55.069
I have cash in my pocket. Go shopping. While

00:33:55.069 --> 00:33:56.990
I was working there, my mother said there's a

00:33:56.990 --> 00:33:58.750
new black attorney. She was so excited because

00:33:58.750 --> 00:34:01.509
it was an old Jewish firm. A new black attorney

00:34:01.509 --> 00:34:03.730
at that firm at that time was huge. She was the

00:34:03.730 --> 00:34:06.809
first black person to ever be at that law firm.

00:34:06.910 --> 00:34:09.170
And this law firm was like 100 years old. Okay,

00:34:09.269 --> 00:34:10.429
they had worked, they would work with people

00:34:10.429 --> 00:34:12.469
at the Holocaust, the Metzger's and all of those

00:34:12.469 --> 00:34:14.750
folks. They were managing their money, getting

00:34:14.750 --> 00:34:16.590
it back from Hitler and all of that stuff, you

00:34:16.590 --> 00:34:19.989
know? Don't you know you would make you were

00:34:19.989 --> 00:34:21.750
dealing with their kids at this time? They did

00:34:21.750 --> 00:34:23.869
their kids who will spoil brats living off of

00:34:23.869 --> 00:34:26.769
the the money half of them was like strung out

00:34:26.769 --> 00:34:31.730
or Money all the time from these estates. So

00:34:31.730 --> 00:34:34.769
Jill Pilgrim was is her name. She came in there

00:34:34.769 --> 00:34:37.030
She at that time she was representing Spike Lee

00:34:37.030 --> 00:34:39.670
She was representing Jackie Joyner, Kersy a lot

00:34:39.670 --> 00:34:41.869
of the Olympians her hurt and I would be in their

00:34:41.869 --> 00:34:44.349
office just she would tell me to go look up stuff

00:34:44.349 --> 00:34:46.110
my mother Got in my ear one day, she said, I

00:34:46.110 --> 00:34:47.530
need you to start working with Jill a little

00:34:47.530 --> 00:34:49.690
bit more. She said, get to know Jill. She's like,

00:34:49.849 --> 00:34:52.010
you know, she's going places. She's going places.

00:34:52.130 --> 00:34:54.449
So I was like, okay, ma. So whenever Jill needed

00:34:54.449 --> 00:34:56.429
something, I would say, sure. As soon as I get

00:34:56.429 --> 00:34:58.630
off the switchboard, I'll come and see you, do

00:34:58.630 --> 00:35:01.929
whatever you need. So she, one day. She started

00:35:01.929 --> 00:35:03.630
having these clients come up and I would be at

00:35:03.630 --> 00:35:06.349
the reception area and I remember this call came

00:35:06.349 --> 00:35:08.210
in Hello, can I speak to Joe program? I'm so

00:35:08.210 --> 00:35:10.750
sure it was me ass was calling Charlie Brown

00:35:10.750 --> 00:35:13.050
or Charles Brown. I thought that was funny I

00:35:13.050 --> 00:35:15.449
was like Charles Brown's is that your real name

00:35:15.449 --> 00:35:17.650
if you say yes, ma 'am, and I was like, okay,

00:35:17.869 --> 00:35:20.469
so I put him through Come to find out, it was

00:35:20.469 --> 00:35:21.610
leaders of the new school. They were getting

00:35:21.610 --> 00:35:23.469
ready to be signed, and Jill was about to sign

00:35:23.469 --> 00:35:26.389
them. So Charles, he used to be the one that

00:35:26.389 --> 00:35:27.989
always came to the office, him and the other

00:35:27.989 --> 00:35:31.409
guy. I forget his name. But those two from the

00:35:31.409 --> 00:35:33.070
group, they always came in and dealt with the

00:35:33.070 --> 00:35:35.369
paperwork. The day that they signed their deal,

00:35:35.909 --> 00:35:38.280
that's the big buster came in. And I had never

00:35:38.280 --> 00:35:41.440
seen Buster before I think I meet some once before

00:35:41.440 --> 00:35:44.460
but they were in the reception area because it

00:35:44.460 --> 00:35:46.420
was like a I was behind a booth in the glass

00:35:46.420 --> 00:35:48.739
and they had to sit on the couches and wait till

00:35:48.739 --> 00:35:51.099
the lawyer came out to get them so I'll let you

00:35:51.099 --> 00:35:53.840
know everybody from the group was there and Buster

00:35:53.840 --> 00:35:55.679
comes up to the window with his dreads up the

00:35:55.679 --> 00:36:00.119
top of his head He said something nice to me

00:36:00.119 --> 00:36:03.480
real sweet real really fun, and I was just laughing

00:36:03.480 --> 00:36:05.900
and he said yo I'm about to be ready. We're about

00:36:05.900 --> 00:36:08.960
to be large and he told me he's about to blow

00:36:08.960 --> 00:36:11.380
up He was like you wait and see and he was just

00:36:11.380 --> 00:36:14.940
telling me I was like, okay. Okay. Okay, so I

00:36:14.940 --> 00:36:16.780
just remembered that day and then sure enough

00:36:16.780 --> 00:36:27.309
the next week I say So next thing I know What

00:36:27.309 --> 00:36:29.170
had happened when I got that thing going with

00:36:29.170 --> 00:36:31.929
TVT Records, I had told Jill about what happened

00:36:31.929 --> 00:36:34.710
when I went to Miami and that my friend had introduced

00:36:34.710 --> 00:36:37.690
me to TVT. She knew about Steve, she knew about

00:36:37.690 --> 00:36:40.070
TVT. She said, okay, we need to come in my office

00:36:40.070 --> 00:36:42.289
and have a meeting. She said, when you get off,

00:36:42.789 --> 00:36:44.869
before you go home, let's come meet in my office.

00:36:45.329 --> 00:36:48.110
And she told me, okay, Kim, we have the contracts

00:36:48.110 --> 00:36:49.570
that they all signed. So I had the contracts

00:36:49.570 --> 00:36:51.860
in my book bag. I said here's the contract from

00:36:51.860 --> 00:36:54.860
TVT. She said wow. She said okay. She said this

00:36:54.860 --> 00:36:57.079
is good She said what about your friend? I said

00:36:57.079 --> 00:36:59.139
she doesn't have an attorney or anything. He

00:36:59.139 --> 00:37:00.739
said she's gonna have to get one She said because

00:37:00.739 --> 00:37:03.219
your interests are different than hers. You know,

00:37:03.219 --> 00:37:04.880
you're a producer. You're a writer. You're an

00:37:04.880 --> 00:37:06.340
actress You're all of these things. You've always

00:37:06.340 --> 00:37:08.340
been doing it She said but she doesn't have any

00:37:08.340 --> 00:37:09.980
goals. So she said you're gonna need to talk

00:37:09.980 --> 00:37:11.260
to her She said because she can't be in the meetings

00:37:11.260 --> 00:37:14.539
with us and she said and another thing when you

00:37:14.539 --> 00:37:16.960
asked how I afforded her She did it for me pro

00:37:16.960 --> 00:37:22.389
bono And she was amazing. I messed that up. Okay

00:37:22.389 --> 00:37:24.909
After three years and we bought a year and a

00:37:24.909 --> 00:37:27.409
half into negotiations and Steve they went all

00:37:27.409 --> 00:37:32.889
my publishing 99 % of my publishing 99 % of my

00:37:32.889 --> 00:37:35.349
but he knew I wrote all my music and that's why

00:37:35.349 --> 00:37:37.070
sometimes I think maybe he just didn't want nobody

00:37:37.070 --> 00:37:38.610
else because he couldn't get to publish it, you

00:37:38.610 --> 00:37:42.889
know, yeah, so Listen, he's an attorney. He was

00:37:42.889 --> 00:37:45.389
that was his that was his uh, that's his game,

00:37:45.530 --> 00:37:48.559
right? So she wasn't having it and he just everybody's

00:37:48.559 --> 00:37:51.059
always come call me from the label telling me

00:37:51.059 --> 00:37:53.519
yo The a &r will be calling me talking about

00:37:53.519 --> 00:37:56.239
steve's in the office with my uh My attorney

00:37:56.239 --> 00:37:58.159
where'd you get that attorney? How are you able

00:37:58.159 --> 00:38:00.800
to afford such an attorney? That lady is good.

00:38:00.860 --> 00:38:02.659
Oh my god Did you know she signed leaders at

00:38:02.659 --> 00:38:05.500
a new school? Yo, i'm like listen my job is to

00:38:05.500 --> 00:38:07.920
let her do her job. Okay? Yeah, but you tell

00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:09.420
your lawyer what to do. I said, oh, no, I don't

00:38:09.420 --> 00:38:12.219
i'm not a lawyer I can't tell my lawyer. Why

00:38:12.219 --> 00:38:13.800
would I have her if i'm gonna tell her what to

00:38:13.800 --> 00:38:15.949
do? I tell her what my interests are And she

00:38:15.949 --> 00:38:17.630
protects those interests. That's what your lawyer

00:38:17.630 --> 00:38:20.409
does. So, um, there was this week and she had

00:38:20.409 --> 00:38:23.730
to leave town And steve was she said stay away

00:38:23.730 --> 00:38:26.210
from that label. Do not go up there And I was

00:38:26.210 --> 00:38:28.289
like, okay She said whatever you do can promise

00:38:28.289 --> 00:38:30.110
me she's they're gonna try and manipulate you

00:38:30.110 --> 00:38:32.269
and i'm worried about you She said whatever they

00:38:32.269 --> 00:38:33.809
put in your face. They will dangle something

00:38:33.809 --> 00:38:39.110
while i'm away She said don't do it They caught

00:38:39.110 --> 00:38:41.590
me to come to this event I remember hiding from

00:38:41.590 --> 00:38:43.170
steve for a while and my friends had asked me

00:38:43.170 --> 00:38:45.570
to go to the movies with them one night And one

00:38:45.570 --> 00:38:47.849
of the chances, it was a snowstorm, all right?

00:38:48.110 --> 00:38:50.170
I had on this long coat with a hood on. We go

00:38:50.170 --> 00:38:52.690
to the movies in the village. And I kept telling

00:38:52.690 --> 00:38:53.829
everybody, they said, Kip, why you got that hood

00:38:53.829 --> 00:38:55.349
on your head? I said, listen, you just never

00:38:55.349 --> 00:38:56.690
know. You just never know what you're going to

00:38:56.690 --> 00:38:58.469
see. I didn't want them to know what I was going

00:38:58.469 --> 00:39:01.210
through. So next thing you know, we're staying

00:39:01.210 --> 00:39:03.289
on the side. And then the maitre d at the movie

00:39:03.289 --> 00:39:05.269
theater, he was talking to my friends. And I

00:39:05.269 --> 00:39:07.230
had gotten them signed to profile records, some

00:39:07.230 --> 00:39:09.530
other friends of mine. And so we were out. And

00:39:09.530 --> 00:39:12.050
so he goes, I said listen I gotta hide these

00:39:12.050 --> 00:39:13.889
two people coming out of this theater and next

00:39:13.889 --> 00:39:16.469
thing I know when I turn around who walks up

00:39:16.469 --> 00:39:20.090
but Steve Gottlieb in a fur hat with his wife

00:39:20.090 --> 00:39:22.369
and walks straight up to me and goes what are

00:39:22.369 --> 00:39:24.829
you doing here so the guy who's the major T this

00:39:24.829 --> 00:39:27.550
young black guy he's looking at wow who are you

00:39:27.550 --> 00:39:30.409
why is he talking to you like that you know like

00:39:30.409 --> 00:39:32.690
you know who's this white man coming up to me

00:39:32.690 --> 00:39:35.670
said he looks mad eccentric he looks like you

00:39:35.670 --> 00:39:38.349
know an artist in the village just like he is

00:39:38.349 --> 00:39:40.449
he looks just like what he is and he's saying

00:39:40.639 --> 00:39:42.480
What why didn't you come to the office? I've

00:39:42.480 --> 00:39:44.219
been I've been looking for you, you know He's

00:39:44.219 --> 00:39:46.280
like begging me why and the guy's looking at

00:39:46.280 --> 00:39:48.019
how he's talking about this Steve. I can't come

00:39:48.019 --> 00:39:50.280
up there I said I told you my lawyer said don't

00:39:50.280 --> 00:39:53.519
come up there as like I can't he said Kim Kim

00:39:53.519 --> 00:39:55.820
You need we need to talk. All right, no pressure.

00:39:56.000 --> 00:39:58.599
We need to I said, okay So when he leaves he

00:39:58.599 --> 00:40:01.800
said you promise you coming I'll talk to you.

00:40:01.800 --> 00:40:04.500
So he leaves and then the guy goes who are you?

00:40:04.619 --> 00:40:10.679
Who are you? So I ended up my A &R all of them

00:40:10.679 --> 00:40:13.679
kind of coerced me to come up to the label. It

00:40:13.679 --> 00:40:17.800
was a Friday night and I'm there and I ended

00:40:17.800 --> 00:40:22.739
up signing the extension like a dummy. Against

00:40:22.739 --> 00:40:24.780
the advice of your lawyer. Against the advice

00:40:24.780 --> 00:40:28.239
of my lawyer. Never again. Never again. Broke

00:40:28.239 --> 00:40:30.260
my heart. She was kind enough. Listen, at that

00:40:30.260 --> 00:40:32.000
point she couldn't represent me anymore. And

00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:34.260
I understood that. But she was kind enough to

00:40:34.260 --> 00:40:37.079
get me another attorney. Pro bono. And he was

00:40:37.079 --> 00:40:39.460
excellent. And he ended up introducing me to

00:40:39.460 --> 00:40:41.500
some great people like Jeff Redd. Me and Jeff

00:40:41.500 --> 00:40:43.679
Redd went and sat down and had a talk. And he's

00:40:43.679 --> 00:40:45.179
one of the people who encouraged me to just focus

00:40:45.179 --> 00:40:47.900
on my writing. And from him, I wrote this song

00:40:47.900 --> 00:40:49.659
called Closer. He just kind of gave me some ideas.

00:40:49.800 --> 00:40:51.559
He said, when you're writing, just go from your

00:40:51.559 --> 00:40:52.960
heart. And I went home that day, and I wrote

00:40:52.960 --> 00:40:54.860
this song called Tell Me How You Feel, which

00:40:54.860 --> 00:40:57.559
I also released. And I always got great response

00:40:57.559 --> 00:41:00.019
on that song. So that's why that was another

00:41:00.019 --> 00:41:02.550
song that I put out right away. But um, yeah

00:41:02.550 --> 00:41:04.849
the lesson from that is I don't care how much

00:41:04.849 --> 00:41:06.690
you want something. Don't be no okey -doke out

00:41:06.690 --> 00:41:09.289
here Don't be no dummy, you know as much as you

00:41:09.289 --> 00:41:10.710
know when somebody tell you don't do something

00:41:10.710 --> 00:41:13.230
and you got a good lawyer Don't risk it because

00:41:13.230 --> 00:41:15.349
what's on the other side? You know the short

00:41:15.349 --> 00:41:17.929
money ain't nothing don't look at the short money

00:41:17.929 --> 00:41:20.829
You know, i've been holding out for 20 years

00:41:20.829 --> 00:41:23.550
and now i'm finally seeing money period i'm getting

00:41:23.550 --> 00:41:26.969
calls from people I heard from since who knows

00:41:26.969 --> 00:41:30.719
when are you calling me now? I appreciate it,

00:41:30.719 --> 00:41:32.340
but you're calling me now to do something for

00:41:32.340 --> 00:41:35.199
me that I asked you to do years ago. You know,

00:41:35.219 --> 00:41:37.719
and I love you still, but let's just all enjoy

00:41:37.719 --> 00:41:39.719
each other and appreciate each other's success

00:41:39.719 --> 00:41:42.179
at this point, because I'm at the stage in my

00:41:42.179 --> 00:41:43.820
life where I'm going to go where I'm appreciated.

00:41:44.260 --> 00:41:46.719
You know, people know me and what people are

00:41:46.719 --> 00:41:49.519
like, you know, interested, you know, if you're

00:41:49.519 --> 00:41:51.380
interested and you want to share this music and

00:41:51.380 --> 00:41:53.079
you're not trying to get me to sound like this,

00:41:53.079 --> 00:41:55.469
this one and that one. Let's let's do it. But

00:41:55.469 --> 00:41:56.949
other than that, I'm just really trying to stay

00:41:56.949 --> 00:42:00.849
in my lane be Kim Swain and enjoy Uh, you know

00:42:00.849 --> 00:42:02.809
the joy that I can give others if you say my

00:42:02.809 --> 00:42:04.550
music did something for that's that's amazing

00:42:04.550 --> 00:42:06.489
to me Well, another thing that makes me feel

00:42:06.489 --> 00:42:08.630
really good when I go someone people know lyrics

00:42:08.630 --> 00:42:12.289
to my song. I'm like, wow You know, I remember

00:42:12.289 --> 00:42:14.650
one time I was singing on stage in in new york

00:42:14.650 --> 00:42:16.769
And uh, we were in I was in this spot in the

00:42:16.769 --> 00:42:19.190
village And I was singing this song called here

00:42:19.190 --> 00:42:21.309
we come that I had did with some friends of mine

00:42:21.949 --> 00:42:23.949
It was all of these like young kids. They knew

00:42:23.949 --> 00:42:36.570
they weren't singing the word But yeah, there's

00:42:36.570 --> 00:42:38.750
nothing I can stress more than to just not want

00:42:38.750 --> 00:42:42.429
it so bad to you Mess up your opportunity altogether.

00:42:42.809 --> 00:42:45.030
I like that. But I also like the fact that just

00:42:45.030 --> 00:42:47.650
in your history of your career in your story

00:42:49.009 --> 00:42:52.789
The common theme is that music lives on and it

00:42:52.789 --> 00:42:55.789
takes a life of its own. And now you're on the

00:42:55.789 --> 00:42:57.829
tell, not the tell in, but you're on the other

00:42:57.829 --> 00:43:01.670
side of where you're getting the notoriety and

00:43:01.670 --> 00:43:04.230
recognition and you're able to do what you want

00:43:04.230 --> 00:43:06.429
to do as opposed to what other people want you

00:43:06.429 --> 00:43:09.010
to do with your career and your sound and your

00:43:09.010 --> 00:43:12.630
creativity. Yes. Yes. There's so much freedom

00:43:12.630 --> 00:43:16.670
in that. Yes, there is. So with your international

00:43:16.670 --> 00:43:20.349
audience being developed and expanding now, how

00:43:20.349 --> 00:43:22.210
do you feel about that? And then where do you

00:43:22.210 --> 00:43:26.110
want that to go? Wow, I'm amazed. And I really

00:43:26.110 --> 00:43:28.469
got to thank Vic Morton from the Atlanta Jazz

00:43:28.469 --> 00:43:31.349
Players for dusting me off and letting me know

00:43:31.349 --> 00:43:35.840
that Kim. You got this you paid your dues do

00:43:35.840 --> 00:43:37.960
it, you know, because I wasn't gonna do it He

00:43:37.960 --> 00:43:40.300
ended up I was working for him doing some PR

00:43:40.300 --> 00:43:42.460
and stuff and I was encouraging him to do a show

00:43:42.460 --> 00:43:45.119
This is a massive five months. Okay, five months

00:43:45.119 --> 00:43:47.400
ago I called him and said listen, you know, I

00:43:47.400 --> 00:43:49.159
got some spots I think you guys need to do some

00:43:49.159 --> 00:43:51.599
shows that he couldn't get it some artists together.

00:43:51.599 --> 00:43:53.579
He said Kim Why don't you do it? So he sends

00:43:53.579 --> 00:43:56.280
me a song to sing called. Don't be fooled Well,

00:43:56.280 --> 00:44:00.079
anyways when he did that put that song out because

00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:01.739
of my name you know he was saying like a lot

00:44:01.739 --> 00:44:03.559
of his song he has so much he has a huge carol

00:44:03.559 --> 00:44:07.340
they do amazing music and um he said i want to

00:44:07.340 --> 00:44:09.440
see what happens when i put your song out and

00:44:09.440 --> 00:44:11.199
we started he started seeing numbers like he

00:44:11.199 --> 00:44:12.920
said he hadn't seen before i was like really

00:44:12.920 --> 00:44:15.300
i said it must be because of the name and then

00:44:15.300 --> 00:44:19.639
next thing you know um i had got a uh email on

00:44:19.639 --> 00:44:23.300
my own facebook um asking me if i was ai or if

00:44:23.300 --> 00:44:25.719
this was really me And I was like, no, that's

00:44:25.719 --> 00:44:28.159
me. I'm a real person. That's Kim Swain They

00:44:28.159 --> 00:44:29.960
said the same Kim Swain that sings love thoughts

00:44:29.960 --> 00:44:32.420
and I was like, yeah And it was a couple of people

00:44:32.420 --> 00:44:34.860
Italy Milan Italy reached out to me a brother

00:44:34.860 --> 00:44:37.119
a guy by the name of Luciano Barry Who's a host

00:44:37.119 --> 00:44:40.099
at Discovery radio? And then a couple somebody

00:44:40.099 --> 00:44:42.960
from Japan is me so soul and they all wanted

00:44:42.960 --> 00:44:45.300
to play my music videos when to make sure I wasn't

00:44:45.300 --> 00:44:48.179
AI Yeah, and I was like this if you're the same

00:44:48.179 --> 00:44:49.719
Kim. They said listen, we don't even care It's

00:44:49.719 --> 00:44:54.929
like we're just so happy to see you back That

00:44:54.929 --> 00:44:57.889
one DJ told the next DJ because they sell my

00:44:57.889 --> 00:45:00.889
music on wax out there apparently my song love

00:45:00.889 --> 00:45:03.110
thoughts has made a lot of DJ some good money,

00:45:03.449 --> 00:45:07.130
you know, and This dude from Belgium had reached

00:45:07.130 --> 00:45:10.150
out to me about maybe 15 years ago when he found

00:45:10.150 --> 00:45:13.449
me on Facebook. He told me that I was really

00:45:13.449 --> 00:45:15.210
big over there. I was like, you have got to be

00:45:15.210 --> 00:45:18.849
kidding me. And then I saw this movie on Netflix

00:45:18.849 --> 00:45:21.449
called Searching for Sugar Man. And I don't know

00:45:21.449 --> 00:45:23.789
if you've ever seen it, but it's definitely my

00:45:23.789 --> 00:45:26.429
story. But to some extent, whereas you could

00:45:26.429 --> 00:45:29.949
be extremely famous somewhere that, you know,

00:45:30.150 --> 00:45:32.150
TVT never put that music out, never distributed

00:45:32.150 --> 00:45:34.809
it. Definitely not overseas. It was a compilation

00:45:34.809 --> 00:45:37.869
for the industry only. My brother, I told you,

00:45:37.869 --> 00:45:39.269
he was living in Belgium. He would have parties

00:45:39.269 --> 00:45:41.570
at his flat. He was selling these. promotional

00:45:41.570 --> 00:45:44.070
CDs. It took me a while to figure out how that

00:45:44.070 --> 00:45:46.449
happened because I just never could figure it

00:45:46.449 --> 00:45:49.630
out but my brother has since passed on and I

00:45:49.630 --> 00:45:53.110
believe he is an angel up in heaven. Moving some

00:45:53.110 --> 00:45:56.869
real serious strings. Okay, and it has to be

00:45:56.869 --> 00:45:59.630
so anyway, you say how do I feel about that?

00:45:59.750 --> 00:46:02.329
I'm extremely grateful because if it wasn't for

00:46:02.329 --> 00:46:04.889
them Telling me that they appreciate my music

00:46:04.889 --> 00:46:06.489
and they look at music totally different from

00:46:06.489 --> 00:46:09.289
the USA and and how and I've always known that

00:46:09.289 --> 00:46:13.570
You know so many artists are overseas That you

00:46:13.570 --> 00:46:15.750
know soul music is late over there, you know,

00:46:15.789 --> 00:46:18.070
they kind of catch up and now the world is so

00:46:18.070 --> 00:46:20.739
Connected, you know your new music is right away.

00:46:20.760 --> 00:46:22.380
As long as you build relationships with these

00:46:22.380 --> 00:46:24.360
people, and you're a real person, I've made so

00:46:24.360 --> 00:46:26.619
many new friends. So I'm making new friends.

00:46:27.079 --> 00:46:29.880
I was on the phone with a gentleman by the name

00:46:29.880 --> 00:46:34.199
of Bert Herges. And he's a big music historian

00:46:34.199 --> 00:46:37.800
and DJ house music guy out there. And he actually

00:46:37.800 --> 00:46:39.599
got on the phone. It was such a pleasure to talk

00:46:39.599 --> 00:46:41.900
to him. And he just kept calling me dairy and

00:46:41.900 --> 00:46:45.219
lovely and darling. And I'm ancient and I love

00:46:45.219 --> 00:46:46.980
him. And he just like made me feel so good and

00:46:46.980 --> 00:46:49.980
warm. I do not get that. You know here at home

00:46:49.980 --> 00:46:52.199
never have I mean I have my family and friends

00:46:52.199 --> 00:46:54.500
that support me They've always come to my shows

00:46:54.500 --> 00:46:56.920
in New York always support my bands and my friends

00:46:56.920 --> 00:47:01.639
in my groups, but um I never had radio play where

00:47:01.639 --> 00:47:04.559
I heard myself on the radio or I heard a DJ saying

00:47:04.559 --> 00:47:06.619
something about introducing him I mean I said

00:47:06.619 --> 00:47:08.300
let me listen to one of these guys radio shows

00:47:08.300 --> 00:47:11.239
on Christmas Day. I was home as I'm playing Just

00:47:11.239 --> 00:47:13.260
in real time. Let me play a show. All right,

00:47:13.260 --> 00:47:16.079
so I played the one in italy And all of a sudden

00:47:16.079 --> 00:47:18.019
I hear the guys talking nothing's in english.

00:47:18.019 --> 00:47:19.400
I at least thought I would be able to hear it

00:47:19.400 --> 00:47:21.059
in english I thought you're gonna speak english

00:47:21.059 --> 00:47:30.280
i was like And then my song came on and you heard

00:47:30.280 --> 00:47:33.239
him and the lady talking back to each other And

00:47:33.239 --> 00:47:34.480
I don't know what they were talking about, but

00:47:34.480 --> 00:47:36.559
he responded to her about kim swain and then

00:47:36.559 --> 00:47:40.650
my song dropped I was like wow I was like, so

00:47:40.650 --> 00:47:43.429
it makes me feel really, really good. It makes

00:47:43.429 --> 00:47:45.630
me feel happy that people like what I'm doing

00:47:45.630 --> 00:47:47.829
because I'm producing my own and writing my own

00:47:47.829 --> 00:47:50.010
music. I don't have Vincent Herbert. I don't

00:47:50.010 --> 00:47:52.110
have Kanye West. I don't have all these other

00:47:52.110 --> 00:47:56.409
amazing producers, Babyface helping me. I have

00:47:56.409 --> 00:47:59.869
Steve in my head and I have the memories of the

00:47:59.869 --> 00:48:01.349
people that I've worked with who have coached

00:48:01.349 --> 00:48:05.650
me on my vocals and people who have been in the

00:48:05.650 --> 00:48:08.150
studio with me and heard me do my layers and

00:48:08.150 --> 00:48:09.920
heard me change my voice, whether I was singing

00:48:09.920 --> 00:48:13.559
classical, reggae, or jazz. They know my capabilities.

00:48:14.019 --> 00:48:16.500
And overseas, they don't question that. They're

00:48:16.500 --> 00:48:18.320
like, can you sing this when you come here? Yeah,

00:48:18.380 --> 00:48:22.659
man. A mix. That was another thing about the

00:48:22.659 --> 00:48:24.739
music industry. And I heard Eric Bonet say this

00:48:24.739 --> 00:48:26.619
the other day. And I believe it was something

00:48:26.619 --> 00:48:30.340
I needed to hear. Because a lot of friends from

00:48:30.340 --> 00:48:32.980
the past that haven't been able to pursue things,

00:48:33.460 --> 00:48:35.960
their careers, if I'm not around, now that I'm

00:48:35.960 --> 00:48:37.699
back on the scene, they're trying to figure out

00:48:37.699 --> 00:48:39.840
how I'm doing it. You know who you working with

00:48:39.840 --> 00:48:42.360
we getting this money who's producing and they

00:48:42.360 --> 00:48:44.860
know I know how to put I learned to I study I

00:48:44.860 --> 00:48:46.920
worked I learned right now I'm learning the bass

00:48:46.920 --> 00:48:51.519
Okay, I'm taking bass bass guitar classes because

00:48:51.519 --> 00:48:55.579
um, I Know what I want to do. I know who I want

00:48:55.579 --> 00:48:57.380
to be. I know how I want to perform I know what

00:48:57.380 --> 00:49:00.940
I want to portray always have They're asking

00:49:00.940 --> 00:49:02.659
me. Oh, well, you know, they're bringing up all

00:49:02.659 --> 00:49:03.960
of these things about all these artists that

00:49:03.960 --> 00:49:10.099
are a and I Use technology and if you want to

00:49:10.099 --> 00:49:12.940
do something learn how to manipulate the technology

00:49:12.940 --> 00:49:14.880
for you I said there are people who are pretending

00:49:14.880 --> 00:49:17.380
to be something else I said and listen for them

00:49:17.380 --> 00:49:19.639
I have no problem with them either because some

00:49:19.639 --> 00:49:22.039
people are afraid to be them and I can I can

00:49:22.039 --> 00:49:24.820
relate to that I can relate to someone who is

00:49:24.820 --> 00:49:28.000
talented, but they're afraid of rejection They're

00:49:28.000 --> 00:49:30.519
afraid of criticism. They're afraid of people

00:49:30.519 --> 00:49:32.420
not liking them and people don't know who you

00:49:32.420 --> 00:49:34.860
are I'm not gonna put my face on the record.

00:49:34.860 --> 00:49:38.579
It's like what you know Kim Why? Will you please?

00:49:38.860 --> 00:49:42.480
I was like, okay, I'll just put it on. Because

00:49:42.480 --> 00:49:44.280
I just wanted to see what palette would respond

00:49:44.280 --> 00:49:47.579
without people knowing it was me. But I didn't

00:49:47.579 --> 00:49:50.320
want to be an AI artist. I'm me. I'm singing.

00:49:50.400 --> 00:49:52.460
I want credit for me. I wrote those songs 100

00:49:52.460 --> 00:49:55.820
years ago. So yeah, it makes me so happy. I'm

00:49:55.820 --> 00:49:58.400
so grateful to be able to not only that these

00:49:58.400 --> 00:50:01.239
people are finding me, they're pulling my music

00:50:01.239 --> 00:50:04.269
out and playing it. They're playing it enough

00:50:04.269 --> 00:50:06.349
that now I'm getting, they reached out, they

00:50:06.349 --> 00:50:09.530
told me and they, I gave them my bio and they

00:50:09.530 --> 00:50:11.489
went and translated it into like seven different

00:50:11.489 --> 00:50:12.829
languages. I didn't even have to ask. They told

00:50:12.829 --> 00:50:15.309
me all the DJs in the UK have my bio. Then one

00:50:15.309 --> 00:50:16.670
called me and told me, he said, Kim, I just want

00:50:16.670 --> 00:50:18.590
you to know your song is blowing up over here.

00:50:18.650 --> 00:50:20.909
It's like not just on Starpoint. It's not just

00:50:20.909 --> 00:50:23.690
on our stations. It's playing on the radios on

00:50:23.690 --> 00:50:25.809
other stations. It's being, it's moving. And

00:50:25.809 --> 00:50:28.750
I'm like, wow. So I kind of sit back right now

00:50:28.750 --> 00:50:33.010
and I'm just kind of letting it, Let me ride.

00:50:33.250 --> 00:50:36.150
I want to let it ride. You know, I want to complete

00:50:36.150 --> 00:50:39.289
my album I want to be authentic authentic to

00:50:39.289 --> 00:50:42.369
myself until my daughter's like you gotta probably

00:50:42.369 --> 00:50:44.750
be in a rock star She's like mama, you know,

00:50:44.750 --> 00:50:46.710
she said she's a lawyer. My daughter's like a

00:50:46.710 --> 00:50:48.530
paralegal. I was like, maybe you could be an

00:50:48.530 --> 00:50:53.829
entertainment attorney But she's proud of me

00:50:53.829 --> 00:50:55.829
and I'm that's the only thing I care about because

00:50:55.829 --> 00:50:59.179
I put it all aside for her You know, I got pregnant

00:50:59.179 --> 00:51:01.679
me and Steve had a meeting one day and things

00:51:01.679 --> 00:51:03.579
just wasn't going right after he had You know,

00:51:03.579 --> 00:51:07.260
I started getting tired You know, he was turning

00:51:07.260 --> 00:51:09.300
down because you know, you kind of do want to

00:51:09.300 --> 00:51:11.539
work with other people, you know at the same

00:51:11.539 --> 00:51:13.760
time and I wanted to explore those opportunities

00:51:13.760 --> 00:51:16.960
but At that time he just wasn't he just thought

00:51:16.960 --> 00:51:19.519
that I could do it on my own. So I remember one

00:51:19.519 --> 00:51:22.289
day I just I had a block I had writer's block

00:51:22.289 --> 00:51:24.090
for a while and I was I think it was because

00:51:24.090 --> 00:51:26.409
I was pregnant and You know, I just kind of needed

00:51:26.409 --> 00:51:28.909
some rest and I remember I was going up there

00:51:28.909 --> 00:51:31.550
to tell him I was ready to leave Yeah, and when

00:51:31.550 --> 00:51:34.309
I got to his office, he said Kim, how you feeling?

00:51:35.090 --> 00:51:37.250
And I thought so listen Steve. I'm pregnant and

00:51:37.250 --> 00:51:40.550
I'm tired and I don't know what's going on I'm

00:51:40.550 --> 00:51:42.369
not happy because I had to break up with the

00:51:42.369 --> 00:51:44.170
girl my friend. There's a big story that happened

00:51:44.170 --> 00:51:48.110
with that and I'm gonna leave it Because it involves

00:51:48.110 --> 00:51:49.650
some things that are going on in the world right

00:51:49.650 --> 00:51:51.849
now in the media And she was one of the people

00:51:51.849 --> 00:51:54.070
that were affected and that's why she and I had

00:51:54.070 --> 00:51:58.170
that's I said no No, I didn't go. Yeah, but she

00:51:58.170 --> 00:52:00.030
went and she ended up, you know, that's when

00:52:00.030 --> 00:52:04.250
those fafos And to this day she's not well, you

00:52:04.250 --> 00:52:06.829
know, and i'm very close with her family um,

00:52:06.829 --> 00:52:10.510
but I I it scared me and I started seeing what

00:52:10.510 --> 00:52:12.030
kind of people I was around what kind of things

00:52:12.030 --> 00:52:13.769
that would be asking me I started getting letters

00:52:13.769 --> 00:52:22.300
from brothers in prison in california But it

00:52:22.300 --> 00:52:24.579
was kind of crazy around that time. And again,

00:52:24.679 --> 00:52:27.000
I was at a label that also had Ja Rule, Earth

00:52:27.000 --> 00:52:30.659
Gotti, all those guys, they had my back, but

00:52:30.659 --> 00:52:34.239
I just didn't, Steve saw me as different. You

00:52:34.239 --> 00:52:37.280
know, I wasn't urban and I'm still not considered

00:52:37.280 --> 00:52:40.800
urban. I am diverse. And that's why I say I just

00:52:40.800 --> 00:52:43.039
didn't I want to be put in a box. I can sing

00:52:43.039 --> 00:52:45.119
and have fun and I can be creative. I was even

00:52:45.119 --> 00:52:47.900
rapping. I did some rap. It's an amazing rap

00:52:47.900 --> 00:52:50.300
song with a friend of mine named Tucker, the

00:52:50.300 --> 00:52:52.340
Hunter man, who's a rapper. He was on profile

00:52:52.340 --> 00:52:56.039
records. But again, I grew up listening to like

00:52:56.039 --> 00:53:00.710
Carly Simon, James Taylor. You know, Where Earth

00:53:00.710 --> 00:53:05.250
Went in Fire, Confunction, Aretha Franklin. I

00:53:05.250 --> 00:53:08.230
mean, it goes on and on and on. My father loved

00:53:08.230 --> 00:53:11.349
David Sanborn. And, you know, we had all kinds

00:53:11.349 --> 00:53:14.909
of music. Ralph McDonald. So that was me and

00:53:14.909 --> 00:53:16.929
my father's special thing to do together. Whenever

00:53:16.929 --> 00:53:18.949
I bought music from Columbia House, he would

00:53:18.949 --> 00:53:21.070
come and take all my cassettes. He would come

00:53:21.070 --> 00:53:24.230
over. Did you get a new stock? Let me listen

00:53:24.230 --> 00:53:26.360
to them first. and then he just kind of and I

00:53:26.360 --> 00:53:28.119
would get in his truck and he'd have all of these

00:53:28.119 --> 00:53:30.880
cassettes. I got a new one for you and a Fleetwood

00:53:30.880 --> 00:53:33.000
Mac. We just loved it. We would just go on long

00:53:33.000 --> 00:53:37.840
drives to he had a um He had a antique store

00:53:37.840 --> 00:53:40.159
in Connecticut. And I just used to love driving

00:53:40.159 --> 00:53:42.139
with my dad. You know, even though I was growing

00:53:42.139 --> 00:53:44.599
at this point, it just was so special to be in

00:53:44.599 --> 00:53:46.679
a car with him, quiet, listening to music in

00:53:46.679 --> 00:53:48.699
the snow, driving up to his store, his house.

00:53:48.900 --> 00:53:51.340
We would stop and get some steak and some wine.

00:53:51.719 --> 00:53:54.239
And, you know, my dad just have a good time,

00:53:54.239 --> 00:53:55.840
you know, look through some books. He would just

00:53:55.840 --> 00:53:57.800
talk about my dad used to make these little horses.

00:53:57.860 --> 00:54:00.280
He was one of the most creative people on earth.

00:54:00.579 --> 00:54:03.760
And I just so misunderstood. But I know that

00:54:03.760 --> 00:54:07.619
he's up there. As well Because he did what he

00:54:07.619 --> 00:54:09.380
did to protect me from something that he didn't

00:54:09.380 --> 00:54:12.639
believe in ended up Creating some real hardcore

00:54:12.639 --> 00:54:15.920
skills for me, you know put me in in the Baptist

00:54:15.920 --> 00:54:19.340
Church My aunt said are you gonna sing with us?

00:54:19.760 --> 00:54:22.000
And you know, she's what she's long gone. She's

00:54:22.000 --> 00:54:23.860
another one that's up in heaven pulling strings

00:54:23.860 --> 00:54:27.119
Yeah, a lot of these people. So yeah, I don't

00:54:27.119 --> 00:54:30.219
want to disappoint my ancestors, you know, I

00:54:30.219 --> 00:54:36.219
definitely get it You're only like your second

00:54:36.219 --> 00:54:44.460
career now, um, I'm gonna make it my first, you

00:54:44.460 --> 00:54:53.619
know A lot of people didn't want me to get back

00:54:53.619 --> 00:54:55.320
into is like, oh Kim, you know this industry

00:54:55.320 --> 00:54:58.360
or whatever But I don't care if I'm in the industry.

00:54:58.480 --> 00:55:01.250
I don't I just want to put the music out It's

00:55:01.250 --> 00:55:02.989
something like right doing a puzzle at home when

00:55:02.989 --> 00:55:05.329
I'm home alone Get in my room. I got my little

00:55:05.329 --> 00:55:07.329
studio in my bedroom of my I was doing media

00:55:07.329 --> 00:55:09.670
for people So everybody kept saying to me because

00:55:09.670 --> 00:55:11.690
they weren't paying me They were everybody will

00:55:11.690 --> 00:55:13.909
call me do these a big big gigs for them and

00:55:13.909 --> 00:55:17.889
I get them all of this Leverage, I mean I'm good

00:55:17.889 --> 00:55:20.010
at what I do and I do that, you know, and I do

00:55:20.010 --> 00:55:22.309
know some folks But folks just don't want to

00:55:22.309 --> 00:55:26.050
pay You know, they always want to do innocent.

00:55:26.050 --> 00:55:29.570
I understand. I'm very I'm not a nonprofit organization,

00:55:29.610 --> 00:55:31.590
but I was about to become one if I stayed on

00:55:31.590 --> 00:55:35.210
that route. Yeah. Okay. I'm not a nonprofit for

00:55:35.210 --> 00:55:38.449
profit. So I got hurt a lot in the last two years.

00:55:38.449 --> 00:55:40.289
I had been through some really, I mean, I tell

00:55:40.289 --> 00:55:44.309
you, the last two years of my life were hard,

00:55:44.710 --> 00:55:48.130
hard. My daughter is doing fantastic. And I put,

00:55:48.130 --> 00:55:51.389
I sacrificed so much so she could be where she

00:55:51.389 --> 00:55:53.190
is and doing what she's doing. She's amazing.

00:55:53.530 --> 00:55:55.230
But you know, at the end of the day, now I had

00:55:55.230 --> 00:55:57.550
to get my life straight. For so many years I

00:55:57.550 --> 00:55:59.469
was doing everything. She was my motivation.

00:55:59.929 --> 00:56:02.510
Yeah, you know, so now this is my motivation

00:56:02.510 --> 00:56:05.210
I'm able to get back, you know, God gave me a

00:56:05.210 --> 00:56:06.730
second chance. He said you did your work. You

00:56:06.730 --> 00:56:13.829
did a good job And that's I gotta thank Vic for

00:56:13.829 --> 00:56:16.690
that, you know Do you think you ever get to the

00:56:16.690 --> 00:56:18.849
point of where you'll probably bring others on

00:56:18.849 --> 00:56:22.230
up under your wing or you're too much like? where

00:56:22.230 --> 00:56:28.179
you're a house form or you know, media or whatever,

00:56:28.340 --> 00:56:29.940
you know, because you have a diverse set of skill

00:56:29.940 --> 00:56:32.900
set. Yeah. Well, that is something that, you

00:56:32.900 --> 00:56:35.619
know, I had to create my own record label. And

00:56:35.619 --> 00:56:39.880
I've always wanted to have like a school or a

00:56:39.880 --> 00:56:42.059
program for children, especially since I'm in

00:56:42.059 --> 00:56:43.800
a music program. Growing up, we had the best

00:56:43.800 --> 00:56:46.239
music programs in music in Brooklyn, in New York.

00:56:47.069 --> 00:56:49.829
Um, and I used to see african dancers come to

00:56:49.829 --> 00:56:52.030
the school indian dancers so much inspiration

00:56:52.030 --> 00:56:54.610
Of giant puppets used to come to the school.

00:56:54.610 --> 00:56:57.449
I mean things are just like blow your mind And

00:56:57.449 --> 00:56:59.949
it gave me so much imagination my mother I was

00:56:59.949 --> 00:57:01.650
trying to mention this earlier when I told you

00:57:01.650 --> 00:57:04.750
she embraced all of our creativity I remember

00:57:04.750 --> 00:57:07.630
when I was a little girl the first time I came

00:57:07.630 --> 00:57:11.510
out came into character for something Me my mom

00:57:11.510 --> 00:57:13.610
used to be home alone together Right, so I must

00:57:13.610 --> 00:57:15.070
and I remember this very clearly everybody my

00:57:15.070 --> 00:57:16.789
family knows the story everybody remembers it

00:57:16.789 --> 00:57:19.090
then we laugh about it to this day because it's

00:57:19.090 --> 00:57:20.670
My mother my father used to always talk about

00:57:20.670 --> 00:57:22.909
over and over you could be 55 and they would

00:57:22.909 --> 00:57:26.190
bring it up And uh, I remember my mom used to

00:57:26.190 --> 00:57:27.829
make lunch and breakfast for me after my brothers

00:57:27.829 --> 00:57:29.789
and sisters would leave You know, she would drive

00:57:29.789 --> 00:57:31.110
them to school and then me and her would come

00:57:31.110 --> 00:57:32.909
back to the house She would play Diana Ross and

00:57:32.909 --> 00:57:35.190
the Isley brothers in the car and I would be

00:57:35.190 --> 00:57:37.750
listening to them on the eight track now green

00:57:38.000 --> 00:57:40.000
And I used to love bottle fools fall in love.

00:57:40.219 --> 00:57:41.960
So, um, when I would get back to the house, I

00:57:41.960 --> 00:57:45.059
would go into my bedroom, get my mom's wig and,

00:57:45.059 --> 00:57:47.599
uh, put on one of her dresses, put the wig on,

00:57:47.659 --> 00:57:50.760
get my dolls, get the microphone. And then she

00:57:50.760 --> 00:57:54.239
would yell out lunchtime or breakfast, you know,

00:57:54.320 --> 00:57:56.260
come and get it. And I would come down the hall

00:57:56.260 --> 00:57:58.260
cause we had this huge apartment in Crown Heights.

00:57:58.260 --> 00:58:00.380
I would go into the kitchen and I remember the

00:58:00.380 --> 00:58:02.860
first time she saw me with my wig and my makeup

00:58:02.860 --> 00:58:06.679
and she told me, she said, well, who is this?

00:58:07.039 --> 00:58:11.260
Hi. I said, I am the lady from the Pinocchio

00:58:11.260 --> 00:58:15.760
show. And she embraced it right away. It was

00:58:15.760 --> 00:58:17.300
in practice. It wasn't something we ever did

00:58:17.300 --> 00:58:19.440
before. And I said, I'm the lady from the Pinocchio

00:58:19.440 --> 00:58:22.380
show. And the fact that she asked me who I was

00:58:22.380 --> 00:58:24.099
she respected the fact that I was pretending

00:58:24.099 --> 00:58:26.719
to be someone else And I did not want to be called

00:58:26.719 --> 00:58:28.980
my nickname, right? Yeah, and i'm gonna have

00:58:28.980 --> 00:58:30.860
my pocketbook and I sat down at the table like

00:58:30.860 --> 00:58:33.219
I used to watch sesame street So I was a character

00:58:33.219 --> 00:58:36.059
and I was sitting there and she would say okay

00:58:36.059 --> 00:58:38.480
She did everything like she was a waiter or waitress.

00:58:38.480 --> 00:58:40.980
She said would you like some hot dogs with those

00:58:40.980 --> 00:58:43.480
eggs? Yes, please and we did the whole thing.

00:58:43.480 --> 00:58:46.550
So that became my routine Every time I came in

00:58:46.550 --> 00:58:49.230
the kitchen for lunch or breakfast. Hello lady

00:58:49.230 --> 00:58:51.110
from the Pinocchio show What's going on at the

00:58:51.110 --> 00:58:53.829
Pinocchio show today? Are you having any shows?

00:58:54.030 --> 00:58:56.329
She would embrace it was lovely. It was lovely

00:58:56.329 --> 00:58:59.030
She never can it wasn't until I took the wig

00:58:59.030 --> 00:59:03.619
off that I was nerdy or Kim again and um We joked

00:59:03.619 --> 00:59:06.000
about my mom has passed about five years ago,

00:59:06.280 --> 00:59:09.199
but we joked about it. Even in her last days,

00:59:09.360 --> 00:59:11.820
I was with my mom. I was with her when she died.

00:59:11.960 --> 00:59:13.860
You know, I missed it by an hour. I had made

00:59:13.860 --> 00:59:16.480
it there late. But I got to say goodbye to her

00:59:16.480 --> 00:59:19.199
the night before. You know, it was hard times,

00:59:19.239 --> 00:59:22.619
but it was fun times. So yeah, I mean, I definitely

00:59:22.619 --> 00:59:24.760
want to help other people because I think it's

00:59:24.760 --> 00:59:27.320
so important when children are young. to tap

00:59:27.320 --> 00:59:30.519
into who they are right then. Because if you

00:59:30.519 --> 00:59:32.500
don't listen, you have to listen. My daughter

00:59:32.500 --> 00:59:35.260
made sure I listened to her. And I mean, there'll

00:59:35.260 --> 00:59:37.199
be times I'll be running around telling her to

00:59:37.199 --> 00:59:40.320
stop and listen to me. And I would just have

00:59:40.320 --> 00:59:43.260
to listen. And I think children, so many children

00:59:43.260 --> 00:59:45.139
will have that. It's such a wonderful thing when

00:59:45.139 --> 00:59:48.260
you, it makes me cry. It gets me emotional when

00:59:48.260 --> 00:59:52.699
I see children. use their creativity and they

00:59:52.699 --> 00:59:55.340
see somebody else that appreciates it, whether

00:59:55.340 --> 00:59:58.219
it's art, whether it's singing or playing an

00:59:58.219 --> 01:00:00.920
instrument, when they see somebody love it, they

01:00:00.920 --> 01:00:02.900
get, it's a smile that you can't, or even if

01:00:02.900 --> 01:00:05.599
you just smile at a child. Lately, the other

01:00:05.599 --> 01:00:07.780
day, I don't know what's going on, but a lot

01:00:07.780 --> 01:00:09.980
of little kids been like coming up to me out

01:00:09.980 --> 01:00:13.980
of nowhere, like all races. I was in the mall

01:00:13.980 --> 01:00:15.840
the other day and I walked into a shoe store.

01:00:16.619 --> 01:00:18.159
That's just kind of walked in real quick looking

01:00:18.159 --> 01:00:20.000
for what I was and this little boy was in a stroller

01:00:20.000 --> 01:00:23.000
cute little Italian kid He was adorable and his

01:00:23.000 --> 01:00:25.300
father is his mother and his grandmother. So

01:00:25.300 --> 01:00:27.960
as soon as I walked in the door, he said hey

01:00:27.960 --> 01:00:37.059
He goes ma 'am ma 'am like he doesn't do that,

01:00:37.059 --> 01:00:43.059
you know, he's calling He just started smiling.

01:00:43.079 --> 01:00:45.219
He's just smiling at me. I said, you know, you're

01:00:45.219 --> 01:00:46.960
just too cute. I said, well, thank you for talking

01:00:46.960 --> 01:00:48.860
to me. I said, I'm so glad. I said, how are you

01:00:48.860 --> 01:00:51.219
today? And me and this kid, father, nobody else

01:00:51.219 --> 01:00:52.619
is involved in the conversation. It's just me

01:00:52.619 --> 01:00:55.059
and the spirit of this child, this energy of

01:00:55.059 --> 01:00:56.780
this child having this conversation. It was just,

01:00:56.940 --> 01:01:00.519
I was like, wow. And I said, well, I hope you're

01:01:00.519 --> 01:01:03.599
having a good day. He said, yeah, yeah. And it

01:01:03.599 --> 01:01:06.500
was like an old soul that remembered me. And

01:01:06.500 --> 01:01:09.159
I said, well, it was, I'm so glad I saw you.

01:01:09.300 --> 01:01:11.519
It made my day. I said, I hope you have a good

01:01:11.519 --> 01:01:14.219
day, OK? And he said, OK. And he just kept smiling.

01:01:14.420 --> 01:01:15.619
I said, all right, well, I'm going to leave now.

01:01:16.000 --> 01:01:18.199
I said, I love you. And he said, I love you,

01:01:18.440 --> 01:01:20.460
too. And the father was like, he's just smiling.

01:01:20.579 --> 01:01:22.519
He said, well, ma 'am, thank you so much. Thank

01:01:22.519 --> 01:01:26.699
you. Thank you. And I'm like, what was that about?

01:01:26.800 --> 01:01:28.500
And then even the people from the store are looking

01:01:28.500 --> 01:01:31.199
at me like. Wow, Miss Kim, because they know

01:01:31.199 --> 01:01:33.420
me at the store, I got to go to get my shoes.

01:01:33.840 --> 01:01:36.159
And they said, Miss Kim, wow. And it just got

01:01:36.159 --> 01:01:39.239
quiet after that. And it happened to me the other

01:01:39.239 --> 01:01:41.239
day in Publix, another little kid in a stroller

01:01:41.239 --> 01:01:43.599
was just waving at me and saying how I'm trying

01:01:43.599 --> 01:01:45.719
to get my attention. So I take that because I

01:01:45.719 --> 01:01:50.119
believe children are connected to God and spirit

01:01:50.119 --> 01:01:53.340
a lot closer than we are. The older we get, sometimes

01:01:53.340 --> 01:01:56.510
we get further away. from that holy part of ourselves,

01:01:56.730 --> 01:02:00.190
that genuine, authentic, youthful, loving spirit.

01:02:00.570 --> 01:02:03.550
And I think that's, you know, God and angels

01:02:03.550 --> 01:02:05.989
telling me, we love you, you're doing all right,

01:02:06.210 --> 01:02:09.429
you know? So yeah, I'm very, that's something

01:02:09.429 --> 01:02:10.909
I do want to do. I do want to help people with

01:02:10.909 --> 01:02:13.610
that, but only serious folks. You know, I'm told

01:02:13.610 --> 01:02:17.750
I made my mistakes, so I know. And I'm a grown

01:02:17.750 --> 01:02:21.110
woman. And if you show me you're mature and you

01:02:21.110 --> 01:02:23.050
know, you went I would I will go all out But

01:02:23.050 --> 01:02:25.610
that is something I'm definitely, you know looking

01:02:25.610 --> 01:02:29.190
to do in the future. I want to pursue artist

01:02:29.190 --> 01:02:30.969
development You know, that's a big thing that

01:02:30.969 --> 01:02:32.489
we don't have a lot of a lot of artists think

01:02:32.489 --> 01:02:35.349
they could put a song out and just go, you know

01:02:35.349 --> 01:02:39.550
What do you think about like artists develop

01:02:39.550 --> 01:02:42.429
it, you know, do you think is gonna make a resurgence

01:02:42.429 --> 01:02:45.219
and come back? I've worked with a lot of artists

01:02:45.219 --> 01:02:47.079
and PR and I've worked with artists development

01:02:47.079 --> 01:02:49.280
artists But again, you know because sometimes

01:02:49.280 --> 01:02:51.059
if you don't listen, you know If you do if you're

01:02:51.059 --> 01:02:53.400
a one -shot pony and you're not consistent with

01:02:53.400 --> 01:02:56.059
your development and you're not putting any effort

01:02:56.059 --> 01:02:59.159
into Developing your craft yourself without me

01:02:59.159 --> 01:03:01.000
telling you what you need to do. Then I have

01:03:01.000 --> 01:03:02.559
to question Well, you know, is there gonna be

01:03:02.559 --> 01:03:05.179
more work for me, you know, because I want artists

01:03:05.179 --> 01:03:08.840
who are really Tell me what they want and I'm

01:03:08.840 --> 01:03:11.119
like, okay I'm gonna help you with that. We're

01:03:11.119 --> 01:03:13.320
gonna we're gonna cultivate that we're gonna

01:03:13.320 --> 01:03:15.019
You know, you're gonna be able to do that like

01:03:15.019 --> 01:03:17.519
like that. That's what you want to do We're gonna

01:03:17.519 --> 01:03:20.239
do it. But if you don't have an idea that I can

01:03:20.239 --> 01:03:22.380
say, you know, i've had my friend She's a makeup

01:03:22.380 --> 01:03:24.900
artist and she said she had some auditions because

01:03:24.900 --> 01:03:28.119
she has a company that she does She needs more

01:03:28.119 --> 01:03:29.940
artists to go and do other gigs because she's

01:03:29.940 --> 01:03:31.780
getting all these jobs So she's looking for real

01:03:31.780 --> 01:03:34.099
professionals and she mentioned to me the other

01:03:34.099 --> 01:03:37.179
day that um, a young lady came in and she was

01:03:37.179 --> 01:03:40.130
cursing out the door when she came in so you

01:03:40.130 --> 01:03:41.409
know something you got to think about when i

01:03:41.409 --> 01:03:43.349
have you around with the people you know with

01:03:43.349 --> 01:03:45.469
my and my clients are you going to be using that

01:03:45.469 --> 01:03:46.909
sort of if you don't have respect enough for

01:03:46.909 --> 01:03:49.369
me to not use that kind of language then what

01:03:49.369 --> 01:03:50.429
are you going to do when i put you in front of

01:03:50.429 --> 01:03:53.570
my clients so it's just things like that or you

01:03:53.570 --> 01:03:55.510
know if you come in here low energy you know

01:03:55.510 --> 01:03:57.289
like hey you know i'm not asking you be jumping

01:03:57.289 --> 01:04:00.769
around doing cartwheels but at least show me

01:04:00.769 --> 01:04:03.760
you excited about you exactly they're coming

01:04:03.760 --> 01:04:05.519
here all depressed and everything and messing

01:04:05.519 --> 01:04:09.719
up the mood and stuff i'm like yeah so those

01:04:09.719 --> 01:04:12.239
are things i definitely want to do this is up

01:04:12.239 --> 01:04:15.039
now you have uh one of this has been a fantastic

01:04:15.039 --> 01:04:19.579
story in all the different highlights the roller

01:04:19.579 --> 01:04:21.760
coaster ride you've experienced i think somehow

01:04:21.760 --> 01:04:24.199
you should be able to put into some type of project

01:04:24.199 --> 01:04:26.000
whether it be like a documentary or something

01:04:26.000 --> 01:04:27.800
because you have so much history and there's

01:04:27.800 --> 01:04:31.579
so much written richness to it but People keep

01:04:31.579 --> 01:04:33.079
asking me to write a book as a matter of fact,

01:04:33.159 --> 01:04:35.840
they want me to have a book Comprised with the

01:04:35.840 --> 01:04:40.469
album, you know, I'm afraid to write a book I

01:04:40.469 --> 01:04:43.250
Don't want to be a part of the narrative, you

01:04:43.250 --> 01:04:45.329
know, but at the end of the day things like what

01:04:45.329 --> 01:04:49.050
my lawyer You know, I've been I've had four recording

01:04:49.050 --> 01:04:51.469
contracts. I've been with slash records. I've

01:04:51.469 --> 01:04:53.929
been under gold -tone records I've been with

01:04:53.929 --> 01:04:56.989
TV team and then a couple of years back I did

01:04:56.989 --> 01:04:59.469
like an independent project as a compilation

01:04:59.469 --> 01:05:02.610
album with Sony, but this is my first opportunity

01:05:02.610 --> 01:05:06.260
to do it my way To be the person I want to be

01:05:06.260 --> 01:05:08.139
to tell the stories I want to tell the way I

01:05:08.139 --> 01:05:10.099
want to tell them to the music that I like that

01:05:10.099 --> 01:05:14.260
makes me that Represents me. Um, and I might

01:05:14.260 --> 01:05:15.900
be all over the place. But guess what? That's

01:05:15.900 --> 01:05:22.019
me That is me So that's yeah I'm like even even

01:05:22.019 --> 01:05:24.619
with that though. Just that is accomplished man

01:05:24.619 --> 01:05:27.559
itself. You've been able to give sign four times

01:05:27.559 --> 01:05:33.780
This was by here came against I once I'm like

01:05:33.780 --> 01:05:36.559
that in itself, just talking about that, you

01:05:36.559 --> 01:05:38.579
know, and just mentioning it is accomplishment.

01:05:38.739 --> 01:05:40.860
The word, yeah, four different entities saw the

01:05:40.860 --> 01:05:43.360
value in you as an artist to be able to sign

01:05:43.360 --> 01:05:45.280
you and, you know, do things with you and work

01:05:45.280 --> 01:05:47.599
with you when there's a lot of them that don't

01:05:47.599 --> 01:05:51.559
even, you know, get to that point or, you know,

01:05:51.659 --> 01:05:53.980
have the fortitude to be able to get there, you

01:05:53.980 --> 01:05:55.579
know, because I'm like, it takes a lot to get

01:05:55.579 --> 01:05:59.630
to show value for people to be signed, but. Well,

01:05:59.690 --> 01:06:02.469
everybody now it's like a lot harder and but

01:06:02.469 --> 01:06:04.989
at the same time it like me I'm able to do it,

01:06:04.989 --> 01:06:06.389
you know You have things like you can do your

01:06:06.389 --> 01:06:08.989
own distribution to things like distro kid You

01:06:08.989 --> 01:06:11.489
have programs like Suno where you can give them

01:06:11.489 --> 01:06:14.530
create your own music and your own echoes and

01:06:14.530 --> 01:06:17.150
your own effects on your voice and things like

01:06:17.150 --> 01:06:19.530
that Oh, you guys was right and saying, you know,

01:06:19.630 --> 01:06:22.389
and you don't really have to do they have all

01:06:22.389 --> 01:06:25.130
kinds of resources nowadays But at the end of

01:06:25.130 --> 01:06:29.179
the day as an artist, um, you know a label or

01:06:29.179 --> 01:06:33.260
independent or a major they don't want somebody

01:06:33.260 --> 01:06:34.960
really that they have to do artist development

01:06:34.960 --> 01:06:37.159
with anymore not a lot of the major leagues they

01:06:37.159 --> 01:06:39.460
have kind of cut that program out barry gordy

01:06:39.460 --> 01:06:41.760
is the only one in the best that did it You would

01:06:41.760 --> 01:06:43.619
really have to seek out opportunities like what

01:06:43.619 --> 01:06:45.400
people like, you know, have a friend Angelo L

01:06:45.400 --> 01:06:47.000
.A .P. who's like the best in the business of

01:06:47.000 --> 01:06:49.380
artist management and public relations. He's

01:06:49.380 --> 01:06:51.239
represented. He still to this day represents

01:06:51.239 --> 01:06:55.320
Dionne Warwick. He's represented Stephanie Mills.

01:06:57.119 --> 01:06:59.780
Oh, the great Luther Vandross. And he's one of

01:06:59.780 --> 01:07:01.539
my mentors. And he's one of the people that also

01:07:01.539 --> 01:07:03.559
encouraged me and believed in me, but mostly

01:07:03.559 --> 01:07:05.760
in media. And he would send a lot of his clients

01:07:05.760 --> 01:07:08.320
to me, Tawatha Aji, who sings Juicy Fruit, an

01:07:08.320 --> 01:07:10.260
amazing woman, an amazing artist. She's a good

01:07:10.260 --> 01:07:12.679
friend. she has motivated and supported me from

01:07:12.679 --> 01:07:14.420
behind the scenes. And when somebody like that

01:07:14.420 --> 01:07:16.980
tells you, Kim, you got it. I'm like, thank you.

01:07:17.019 --> 01:07:19.260
I need to hear from nobody else now. I'm good.

01:07:20.019 --> 01:07:24.119
You're going to download it. I'm good. Yeah,

01:07:24.260 --> 01:07:25.860
you know, I'm blessed to know a lot of great

01:07:25.860 --> 01:07:27.820
people. I've been blessed to be in a lot of rooms,

01:07:28.780 --> 01:07:31.440
hear a lot of things. But, you know, I'm like,

01:07:31.579 --> 01:07:33.980
my family used to call me down, you know, because

01:07:33.980 --> 01:07:37.409
I retain it. I retain it. And I remember. That's

01:07:37.409 --> 01:07:39.050
why my brother used to make sure he could he

01:07:39.050 --> 01:07:41.269
didn't tell me too much and you better not tell

01:07:41.269 --> 01:07:43.409
because I tell yes I'm not gonna lie my mother

01:07:43.409 --> 01:07:45.849
asked me a question. I gotta tell her mom's gonna

01:07:45.849 --> 01:07:49.409
smack me if I don't open my mouth But I retain

01:07:49.409 --> 01:07:54.710
everything I learned but I just always want to

01:07:54.710 --> 01:07:59.690
be a quality person that I don't want to put

01:07:59.690 --> 01:08:02.610
nothing bad out You know, I want my image. I'm

01:08:02.610 --> 01:08:04.889
not perfect. I'm not trying to be perfect But

01:08:04.889 --> 01:08:06.889
I want to be someone that people can relate to

01:08:06.889 --> 01:08:09.170
like I said children My friend told me the other

01:08:09.170 --> 01:08:10.789
night her kids was in the living room dancing

01:08:10.789 --> 01:08:13.969
to my song. I'm like that That's wonderful. Okay,

01:08:13.969 --> 01:08:17.430
it's wonderful So, um, those are the type that's

01:08:17.430 --> 01:08:19.210
the kind of energy I want, you know, it's kind

01:08:19.210 --> 01:08:20.930
of energy people I want around me. I don't like

01:08:20.930 --> 01:08:24.210
toxicity now. I can't be getting no arguments

01:08:24.210 --> 01:08:26.770
Nobody the people crazy. I got time for that.

01:08:26.770 --> 01:08:33.659
See you later And like so that's what it's all

01:08:33.659 --> 01:08:36.939
about Okay, let everybody know how can a you

01:08:36.939 --> 01:08:39.979
know the look you up listen any other thing that

01:08:39.979 --> 01:08:42.869
you want them to be directed to Well right now

01:08:42.869 --> 01:08:46.029
you can find my music of on any platform. It's

01:08:46.029 --> 01:08:49.930
on Spotify YouTube Apple music being played on

01:08:49.930 --> 01:08:53.289
I heart radio You can download it. You can buy

01:08:53.289 --> 01:08:57.409
it on Apple music My album is going to be released

01:08:57.409 --> 01:09:00.350
in the spring. Okay, I'm working on March. We're

01:09:00.350 --> 01:09:04.319
almost done halfway there and what else of the

01:09:04.319 --> 01:09:06.520
video we're editing the video for closer right

01:09:06.520 --> 01:09:08.899
now um that's something working with john nalls

01:09:08.899 --> 01:09:12.199
who's an amazing uh producer a video producer

01:09:12.199 --> 01:09:15.000
and cameraman out here in in atlanta who's a

01:09:15.000 --> 01:09:18.859
great friend and uh carla lamar was the creative

01:09:18.859 --> 01:09:22.840
director assisted me on my um my vision and uh

01:09:22.840 --> 01:09:26.220
hannah ali she did my makeup Um some great people

01:09:26.220 --> 01:09:28.300
that i've known that i've that really came through

01:09:28.300 --> 01:09:30.899
for me And so you can look out for that. Hopefully

01:09:30.899 --> 01:09:33.340
we'll have that video out by the end of next

01:09:33.340 --> 01:09:36.000
month if not before And then I have some new

01:09:36.000 --> 01:09:38.880
music dropping this week. We just dropped uh,

01:09:38.939 --> 01:09:41.060
uh, you say which was written and produced by

01:09:41.060 --> 01:09:44.539
me Um, and that bass line, uh, is very special

01:09:44.539 --> 01:09:47.460
to me because it is my friend shah harry playing

01:09:47.460 --> 01:09:50.739
who is no longer with us So, um, I just i'll

01:09:50.739 --> 01:09:53.920
dedicate that song to him because me and him

01:09:53.920 --> 01:09:57.770
to spend a whole whole lotta cold evenings in

01:09:57.770 --> 01:10:01.270
East New York, developing songs, writing and

01:10:01.270 --> 01:10:02.869
him playing the bass or listening to somebody

01:10:02.869 --> 01:10:06.189
doing, put a drum and, you know, that was years

01:10:06.189 --> 01:10:08.449
ago and he's come back in spirit. I know he's

01:10:08.449 --> 01:10:11.069
another angel pulling strings, okay? Because

01:10:11.069 --> 01:10:14.229
that song is doing great over there. So yeah,

01:10:14.529 --> 01:10:16.529
that's pretty much, you can follow me. My Instagram

01:10:16.529 --> 01:10:20.529
is at Kate Kim Swain. I spell it K -Y -M -S -W

01:10:20.529 --> 01:10:23.569
-A -I -N and that's Facebook. uh anything i'm

01:10:23.569 --> 01:10:26.609
not on i'm not on x or tiktok yet i'm just not

01:10:26.609 --> 01:10:31.050
a tiktoker so much effort you say master a couple

01:10:31.050 --> 01:10:32.750
platforms anyway and then you know i'm gonna

01:10:32.750 --> 01:10:35.449
make work way up from it so yes i'm just i'm

01:10:35.449 --> 01:10:38.329
letting the music ride but um that that's how

01:10:38.329 --> 01:10:40.989
you can reach me and um yeah i really appreciate

01:10:40.989 --> 01:10:42.970
you andres for taking time to have this conversation

01:10:42.970 --> 01:10:45.649
to be interested in having a conversation yeah

01:10:45.649 --> 01:10:47.670
like i said i love the story that you're telling

01:10:47.670 --> 01:10:50.710
like there was so many of them whatever and i

01:10:50.710 --> 01:10:55.569
know there's more Some of them, we may just have

01:10:55.569 --> 01:10:56.989
to have a party one night and I take you over

01:10:56.989 --> 01:10:58.109
to the corner and tell you the other stories

01:10:58.109 --> 01:11:00.390
because I don't know, I want people calling me.

01:11:04.329 --> 01:11:06.390
Y 'all make sure y 'all go, y 'all follow KissWay

01:11:06.390 --> 01:11:08.949
and look out for all her stuff. And as always,

01:11:08.970 --> 01:11:12.109
y 'all can keep up with the platform. And any

01:11:12.109 --> 01:11:14.850
exclusives that we do drop will be on Apple for

01:11:14.850 --> 01:11:17.689
all our subscribers. Keep following us on social

01:11:17.689 --> 01:11:19.529
media, Bank That Underscore Radio Underscore

01:11:19.529 --> 01:11:21.329
Show on Instagram and Bank That Radio Show on

01:11:21.329 --> 01:11:25.069
Facebook. Thank you, babe. I appreciate it. Thank

01:11:25.069 --> 01:11:25.470
you.